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Thread: A simple plea.

  1. #1
    Rampant psychopath Member Olaf Blackeyes's Avatar
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    Default A simple plea.

    I got a simple question.
    1.Will the EB team be able to make improvements on the M2TW engine, ESPECIALLY the HORRIBLE pathfinding that all unit seem to display?

    The stories that i could tell you about pathfinding in M2TW,
    My fav to tell is one where i was besiegeing a small town in France. It was like one or two units to like 12 of mine. The battle was on auto roll a 90% win chance for me, but i was bored. So i decided to fight it myself. I breach the walls and storm the place. And as usual as soon as unit enter a settlement they suddenly freeze/split apart/go crazy and stop marching where i tell them to go. Only this time around, as im trying to charge the square the unit that is leading the charge breaks into three and freezes. No matter what i do i simply cant get them to move. So i decide to ignore them for the fight. BIG mistake. One of the units is a french general. He attacks the units pieces and wipes one of them out, causing it to rout. This SOMEHOW starts the mass panic that routs two thirds of my army. They rout INTO the enemy AND BACK through the enemy to get outr of the settlement, losing almost all of the men. Im NOT kidding, out of 80-100 man units im getting 10-15 men back per unit. After picking my jaw up off the floor I send in the reserves and manage to win.
    PLZ TELL ME YOU CAN STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING?!?!?!? PLZ!?!!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayve View Post
    You're fighting against the AI... how do you NOT win?

  2. #2

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    I've nearly lost a battle because my heavy cavalry refused to Charge.
    Not sure if this could be considered path finding though
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  3. #3

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    I don't think anything can be done about it. At least, it wasn't fixed in the mods I've tried.

  4. #4
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    It'll be a shame if its unfixable as the buggy behavoir in settlements made city fighting impossible in m2tw, i just used to auto calc them all.

    Another major headache was the placement of your own troops when defending a settlement, for some reason the game would not let you place a unit in a street even if there was plenty room for it.


  5. #5

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    It'll be a shame if its unfixable as the buggy behavoir in settlements made city fighting impossible in m2tw, i just used to auto calc them all.

    Another major headache was the placement of your own troops when defending a settlement, for some reason the game would not let you place a unit in a street even if there was plenty room for it.
    yes, this is really poor, I can't understand with various GB more than RTW can make a game relatively worse.

    RTW I think more playable, with a strategic management more intuitive and more clear.

    After playing a month with M2TW I returned to play with RTW (EB) system because the game did not gave me the same emotions.

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  6. #6
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    I remember the only emotions i got from m2tw was rage and the sincere desire to drive my keyboard through my computer screen.


  7. #7

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Blackeyes View Post
    I got a simple question.
    1.Will the EB team be able to make improvements on the M2TW engine, ESPECIALLY the HORRIBLE pathfinding that all unit seem to display?
    You, I, or anyone else (that includes the EB team) are not allowed to modify the executable by license. Therefore, you can forget about that part already. (May I remember that this pathfinding issue exists in RTW as well?)

    PLZ TELL ME YOU CAN STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING?!?!?!? PLZ!?!!?!
    Maybe. Who knows what the impact of city/village layouts is?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Some mods, like Broken Crescent, have addressed many of the issues dealing with unit cohesiveness. I don't know well about pathfinding but BC units seem to be very responsive to orders and not very prone to spread out in chaos, although spreading out in chaos is a historically accurate feature of M2TW, let's say.

    I found modded M2TW very enjoyable, to be true.

  9. #9
    Member Member Bucefalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Sincerely, although i love the great cohesion and responsiveness of troops in RTW, i find more realistic the system used in M2TW. Sure, sometimes it is annoying as hell, but i prefer that rather than having perfect organized troops who obey every order you give them in 0.001; but the siege bugs are another matter entirely, they are sometimes really frustrating

  10. #10

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    I don't think having the front row of an infantry charge while the rest of the solders mill around or other such nonsense was typical of medieval warfare. Most of them might not have been professional soldiers, but they weren't idiots and they would have gotten better at it as a campaign progressed. No, the unit cohesion (or lack thereof) is just bad design.

  11. #11
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Yes... that was really annoying bugs of some men running away from their own units, and start creating mess when you send them in the city... but that's just the part of the game anyway.... It's Medieval, and all did you want as a soldier is an earlier chance to loot houses and rape women.


    some simple solution to the siege bug...
    1. Use siege weapons, not only to break their wall, but to destroy them... I usually use 4 trebuchets or more, yes they are slow to march on campaign map, but they are pretty useful anyway.

    2. Order your unit to move only in reasonably short way... ordering them long way in cities just take the mess.

    3. Use cavalry to flank in cities, they had better cohesion than infantry anyway... Use infantry just to hold them.

    But I think that way would represent Barbarian factions (impetuous units), eastern levies, and militia skirmishers better in EB2, the primary line army could had disciplined, highly_trained, as these attributes gives them more cohesiveness in M2TW...

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  12. #12
    Rampant psychopath Member Olaf Blackeyes's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    @cutewolf: Thats not really that funny but it is true.
    @Tellos: I can dream and no the pathfinding issues that i got in M2TW are VERY different from RTW. In RTW all a unit would do is stop every great once in a while. In M2TW the unit breaks into 5-10 different pieces, freezes and then routs easliy cause 1/2 of your army to do so as well. I mean seriously, WTF?!?!?!? I had to auto-skip all siege battles due to this "feature".
    @bobbin:I KNOW that feeling man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayve View Post
    You're fighting against the AI... how do you NOT win?

  13. #13

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Looting houses and raping women is actually an universal, not just medieval, vie .

  14. #14
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Viking Re-enactment FTW!!!

    I have never ever experienced that problem Olaf, despite five finished campaigns of MTW II Gold (includes Kingdoms). Perhaps it was improved for Kingdoms or perhaps I just fight battles differently...
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

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  15. #15
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Stainless Steel has pretty reasonable pathfinding.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  16. #16

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    You, I, or anyone else (that includes the EB team) are not allowed to modify the executable by license. Therefore, you can forget about that part already. (May I remember that this pathfinding issue exists in RTW as well?)


    It would be illegal if you guys sold your mod ...
    but because its for a free download i dont think there is any risk at all.
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  17. #17
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: A simple plea.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddy_purpus View Post
    It would be illegal if you guys sold your mod ...
    but because its for a free download i dont think there is any risk at all.
    Except that it would be giving away free copies of the game (modified or not)? I doubt SEGA would be happy about that. And it's not as if modifying the .exe is easy. It's technically possible to reverse-engineer the source code, but the resultant file is very difficult to interpret even by experienced programmers. Redesigning it will be even more difficult as even small changes may require several parts of the program to be rewritten. Finally, it's easy to say that you want to improve unit A.I., but doing is quite complex.
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  18. #18
    Rampant psychopath Member Olaf Blackeyes's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Well the comp that i have wont support Kingdoms (So no EBII for me either)

    My own personal SLAVE BAND (insert super evil laugh here)
    My balloons:
    My AAR The Story of Souls: A Sweboz AAR
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109013


    Quote Originally Posted by Dayve View Post
    You're fighting against the AI... how do you NOT win?

  19. #19

    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Hi everybody, u just have to check the fine work xeryx does with ai, both Campaign AI (CAI) and BattlefieldAI (BAI). Anybody can study his work and help the EB team.

    XAI: The game core renovation project
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=637

  20. #20
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: A simple plea.

    We can be pretty sure that the EB team are looking at ways to improve the battle A.I.
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  21. #21
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    I've been curious for a while. What are you to the EB Team, Ludens? Are you the general PR guy or Foot replacement or what?
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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  22. #22
    Abou's nemesis Member Krusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: A simple plea.

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    I've been curious for a while. What are you to the EB Team, Ludens? Are you the general PR guy or Foot replacement or what?
    He ain't part of the team, and we suspect he's gotten access to our private forums by sinister means....



    Nah, Ludens just remembers all the stuff posted by EB members and from playing EB a lot. And it also helps being on good terms with the team.
    "Debating with someone on the Internet is like mudwrestling with a pig. You get filthy and the pig loves it"
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  23. #23
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: A simple plea.

    Actually, I do not possess any inside information whatsoever. I've just been around here for a long time and I remember many of the developers' posts. I've also got a good insight into EB's design philosophy and methods. I am a semi-professional EB watcher, you might say .
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