On the Succession of Heirs

[bamff]

In my current Crusader States campaign, a most peculiar thing happened.

My King (Stephen) had two sons when he ascended the throne (Hugh and Henry). A third son (John) arrived after Stephen was crowned.

Now I am pretty sure that Hugh & Henry were Stephen's sons. They had never had their birth heralded by a "Son is Born" parchment during the reign of the preceding King, and they had never appeared on the heirs list until after Stephen was crowned. How do I know this? I will confess to being a bit "OCD" about note-keeping....

When Stephen died, I was most surprised to find that the new King was John, and that Hugh and Henry had both vanished altogether. One minute they are happily playing in Constantinople and Tripoli respectively, next year they are nowhere to be found.

Is this something that anyone else has encountered?

Is it peculiar to XL? I do not recall seeing it happen in VI or vanilla MTW.

[chris34au]

did they disappear or did they just turn into regular generals? i think that i've had the latter happen to me several times but i've never seen heirs just disappear before.

[HopAlongBunny]

Maybe they were his brothers; born but not "of age" when Stephen ascended?

If you have nondescript RK units where you once had princes, it might be that they are "dropped" from succession. Still it leaves you w/o heirs until John produces one.

[I of the Storm]

Yes, check their former RK units. If they have a crown beside their portrait, that's them. They dropped from succession then. Which means that the game engine counted them as Edmunds sons, not Stephens sons. So either the engine is wrong or your notes.

[Turbosatan]

Is the green_generals tag on?

I've found that sometimes makes things, well, a bit screwy when it comes to succession -- under some circumstances it seems to just go strange with ex-heirs dropping dead in the background; I think because we don't see "under the hood" as it were it's difficult sometimes with that tag on to ascertain exactly what's happened. We just see the results after the turn has ended rather than as it happens.

[Fagar]

I have never had hiers or any royal blood for that matter just dissapear.
This would be a first that I have encountered.
I have had some strange observations before with brothers of the recently deceased king suddenly becoming marked as the sons of a new king apon ascension, which is similiar to your experience Bamff and I have had them just become normal RK units when they are no longer in line for the throne but I have never lost them completely.

[Roark]

Turbosatan is right. Green Generals makes things go a bit weird sometimes...

Check your RKs in Istanbul, dude...

[bamff]

Is the green_generals tag on?

No, so we can eliminate that one.

I will check the RK units more closely when I get a chance - stay tuned!

[bamff]

Had a look over the weekend, and I can confirm the following:

Sons Hugh and Henry (and their respective units) both disappear after the death of their father Stephen. Henry I should have spotted - his was the only unit of RK's in Tripoli.

The succession list is also interesting.

Before Stephen's demise the list includes: Hugh, Henry, John, Richard, and William.

After Stephen's death, the list commences with John, Richard, and William.

A few years down the track, and uncles Richard and William are shuffled down the list as John's own sons start appearing, but at least they are still there, whereas Hugh and Henry are gone altogether.

I suppose the odd bit of unpredictability adds to the fun of this game.....

[caravel]

If both the heirs and their units actually vanish then it's a bug or corrupted save that's the likely culprit here. The units should never vanish, as you know, they should simply drop out of succession with the former heirs becoming generals with royal blood.

[bamff]

If both the heirs and their units actually vanish then it's a bug or corrupted save that's the likely culprit here. The units should never vanish, as you know, they should simply drop out of succession with the former heirs becoming generals with royal blood.

I had thought as much.....fingers crossed that it isn't a bug or corruption that will cause me any further problems in the campaign....

[Knight of the Rose]

Clearly both the sons and the king *and* the royal archieve suffered from the terrible incident...

/KotR