The Shiny Mod (AKA: Adding some variety and general fixes)

[Sheogorath]

I know double posting is bad and all, but wow, 130 views and no replies.
I'm a marketing genius!
Now, if only I had a product

[Mailman653]

I have noticed that there is a late British unit that wears shakos, maybe once the tools are out and if we can mod the models, maybe we can give other units shakos and have that early-mid 19th century look.

But then there is the issue of the shared gloss.tga's and what not, it just seems difficult right now without the tools and knowing what we can and can't do. For instance I would love to see British artliery in blue coats not red, but unless I want cause every arty soldier in the game to have a white coat minus the British, it's not worth changing atm.

[Laudon]

I have not got to the grenzers ingame yet, but they were historically equipped with double barreled muskets (one barrel rifled) and short pikes (to stabilise heavy musket and for self-defense). But only 2500 pieces of these "Doppelstutzen" were made and issued to grenzer sharpshooters. The weapon was used from 1768 to 1808, AFAIK.

So it is historical weapon, but in the same sense as flaming pigs and screeching women...

Concerning skins and realistic uniform details, I could gladly help with my limited knowledge of uniformology. I have my copy of Bleckwenn´s Frederickian uniforms ready

[Sheogorath]

I have noticed that there is a late British unit that wears shakos, maybe once the tools are out and if we can mod the models, maybe we can give other units shakos and have that early-mid 19th century look.

But then there is the issue of the shared gloss.tga's and what not, it just seems difficult right now without the tools and knowing what we can and can't do. For instance I would love to see British artliery in blue coats not red, but unless I want cause every arty soldier in the game to have a white coat minus the British, it's not worth changing atm.

Well, even if the colors cant be got just right, we can at least give them the right TYPE of uniforms, eh?

And change the Spanish factions color. I'm all for distinctive colorings, but 'Piss Yellow' doesn't exactly appeal to my sense of military panache

I have not got to the grenzers ingame yet, but they were historically equipped with double barreled muskets (one barrel rifled) and short pikes (to stabilise heavy musket and for self-defense). But only 2500 pieces of these "Doppelstutzen" were made and issued to grenzer sharpshooters. The weapon was used from 1768 to 1808, AFAIK.

So it is historical weapon, but in the same sense as flaming pigs and screeching women...

Concerning skins and realistic uniform details, I could gladly help with my limited knowledge of uniformology. I have my copy of Bleckwenn´s Frederickian uniforms ready

Seems a bit pointless, even so >_>

Maybe create a seperate unit for double-barreled grenzers, then. Apparently it IS possible to make it so only one of a unit can be recruited.

Anyway, I'm sure we can come up with something good enough to appease the historian crowd while still being fairly possible.


So, in terms of uniform structure, I'm thinking something like this:

An 'early' set of fairly same-y uniforms (possibly based off of CA's default ones) which covers the period to 1750, since, as far as I can tell, the forums appear to have got it right that most people wore pretty much the same thing until that time.

The 'middle' set, which would essentially be the 'evolved' form of the early uniforms, representing the era when the Prussian model was popular. Frederick the Great and all that jazz.

The last set will be the late model Napoleonic/Pre-Napoleon era uniforms. Lots of nice straight lines and suchlike. Maybe we can talk to the fellows at LORDZ and see if they'll give us some advise on those.


I also propose the following stat fixes:

Make British infantry more expensive. As it is, they're only 80 more than Russian line, who are pretty much the worst European line infantry. I'd say double their price, initially. Also, give them a boost in upkeep cost as well. The British trained their infantry heavily in marksmanship, and bullets and gunpowder aren't free.
Take their melee attack down to normal and give them a boost in accuracy, and maybe range.

Decrease Prussian infantry's defense, increase their attack, accuracy and morale. Slight increase in price.

Increase Russian infantry's morale, and increase their melee skills. It's hardly fair to the Russians to make their line infantry so terrible without giving any compensation. Possibly decrease their price/upkeep a bit as well.

Are the Austrians and French alright as-is? Maybe increase the Frenchies cost/upkeep to represent the French tendency to overspend on shiny bits? Any French/Austrian specialists who care to comment?

Increase artillery accuracy in general. Maybe the current settings are accurate, but really, it's only one shot out of 10 that actually kills more than one guy. It's kind of a downer :P

Change all line infantry names to "(Country) Line Infantry", EX: British Line Infantry, French Line Infantry, etc.

Unique names and stats for Guard units. Lifeguard for Russia, Footguard for the British, that sort of thing.

Make grenadier units equivalent in size to line infantry, boost their melee ability (and maybe their accuracy, a little) and take away their grenades. Remove grenade launchers in countries that have them and replace with standard grenadiers as required.

Do we take out puckle guns? I'm not sure on that one. They dont seem quite as totally silly as the grenade launchers, but they are a little out of place. Maybe just replace them with maxim guns or something. They'll fit in with the steam ships.

That's just the initial list, of course. Trying not to get TOO ambitious here :P

[Laudon]

If the engine allows, there could be

1)some new cathegories of units - for example prussian fusiliers (are they even ingame?, if not, CA have omitted almost half of Old Fritz´s infantry) or austrian hungarian infantry (which should have greater melee skills then austrian german fusiliers, because hungarians were more fond of getting to hand to hand combat - ex. regiment Haller at Kolin shoot off their ammo and afterwards draw sabres -which only hungarians had- and charged the prussian line in spite of their fire).

2)some special units which would be limited in numbers (famous regiments), for example prussian dragoon regiment Bayreuth (twice the number of men and elite) and hussar regiment Zieten (more elite and famous then even the "death heads", if only in the person of its inhaber, the "father of all prussian hussars").

Are the Austrians and French alright as-is? Maybe increase the Frenchies cost/upkeep to represent the French tendency to overspend on shiny bits? Any French/Austrian specialists who care to comment?

I would add to the list of inaccurancies to be removed the inclusion of "carabiniers" as some shooty cavalry. Real austrian carabiniers were elite squadrons of cuirassiers, often detached in amalgamated corps of super-heavy cavalry (the foot grenadiers were used likewise).

Heh, I am glad the CA did not read about horse grenadiers - the elite squadrons of dragoons. I could imagine what would follow...

The austrians definitely miss hungarian infantry and possibly SYW era grenzers (by the time of SYW the prussians were gaining the upper hand in the "kleine krieg" due to its superior hussars and "castration" of grenzers by austrian military reforms).

On the other hand, austrians got lancer (uhlan) regiments only after dividing of Poland. The austrian lancers are more napoleonic, then SYW thing. The austrian army also had not any guard formations.

The austrian army underwent major reform between Silesian wars and SYW and the austrian infantry was noted for its standing power ("These are not the old Austrians" said Frederick after Lobositz). The real reason which caused their loss in the SYW was not inferiority of their army (the Alte Fritz was soundly beaten more then once by them), but their f***ed economy, court intrique and diplomatic changes (especially the miracle of the House of Brandenburg).

***

To end this monologue, I am able to supply data about SYW (especially austrian and prussian side, books by Bleckwenn, Pengel and Hurt, Duffy, Ospreys...) and napoleonic uniforms, army organization and campaigns, but I am unable to make new skins and to mod.

[Sheogorath]

-I believe all the major factions get light infantry, so it's just a matter of renaming them in a faction-appropriate manner, and maybe increasing their unit size.

For the Hungarian units, perhaps just take the NTW approach and give the Austrians two sets of units? Austrian/Hungarian Line, Grenadiers, etc.?

-Already noted the famous regiments :P
Peraps we can get somebody to make a slightly-taller than normal model for Frederick the Great's giant grenadiers

-We may just end up removing the ability of dragoons to shoot altogether...or perhaps have a 'late dragoon' unit which acts as medium cavalry, but is no longer armed with a carbine. I think that dragoons as mounted infantry pretty much dissapeared by the the mid-1700's, right?

-Aye, I know of that.
We'll definitely have to reform the cavalry rosters. As I recall, by the Napoleonic wars, the UK was pretty much the only country that DIDN'T have lancers of some sort.
Cavalry, I think, may also need to be the primary subject of the uniform reform. I'm no big fan of them, but I know for certain that any decent cavalry commander of the era would roll over in his grave(s) if he saw the treatment they'd gotten in ETW.

-So, perhaps we should Establish Austrian infantry as our 'baseline' average infantry? Give them the nice, round, stats and even price/upkeep, and judge other countries infantry stats as 'better' or 'worse' than theirs? That might make things a bit easier on the stats front.

-Seems getting people with the appropriate l33t konputar skillz is the real challenge here :P
Still, welcome aboard. Looks like we've got Central and Eastern Europe covered

[Laudon]

For the Hungarian units, perhaps just take the NTW approach and give the Austrians two sets of units? Austrian/Hungarian Line, Grenadiers, etc.?

I agree.

We may just end up removing the ability of dragoons to shoot altogether...or perhaps have a 'late dragoon' unit which acts as medium cavalry, but is no longer armed with a carbine. I think that dragoons as mounted infantry pretty much dissapeared by the the mid-1700's, right?

I would remove ability to shoot from medium and heavy cavalry altogether and give it to the light cavalry. Although there probably were some instances of battle cavalry using their firearms in volley fire (this is true even for the napoleonic periods), main emphasis was at rapid charge with cold steel. Although all prussian cavalry were taught skirmishing drill (even cuirassiers), it was meant only for outpost duty.

The idea with "late dragoons" is sound. ETW period is the time of gradual evolution from "almost 30YW tactics" to the "almost napoleonic tactics". I am no expert on Great northern war or any early 18 century conflicts, but i can see greater prevalence of cavalry fire (as a remnant of caracolle tactic) in the first half of the century.

So, perhaps we should Establish Austrian infantry as our 'baseline' average infantry? Give them the nice, round, stats and even price/upkeep, and judge other countries infantry stats as 'better' or 'worse' than theirs? That might make things a bit easier on the stats front.

Yeah, we would need some baseline to compare to. But we would need to take into account the effect of technology on the performance of combatants. For example ramrods (which are sadly missing from ETW technology tree) and the advantage of the prussian infantry (silesian wars period) equipped with iron ramrods against austrians with ramrods made form (easily breakable) wood.