Iraqi Shoe Thrower Gets Three Years

[Fixiwee]

BAGHDAD — An Iraqi journalist who gained widespread acclaim throughout the Arab world for hurling his shoes at President Bush during a visit here in December was sentenced to three years in jail by a court on Thursday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/13/wo..._r=1&ref=world

[Hooahguy]

3 years?! a bit much, IMO.

[Strike For The South]

3 years? This is the country we were spreading democracy to, right?

[Fixiwee]

IIRC the old punishment for such an offense was 15 years.

[Xiahou]

3 years? This is the country we were spreading democracy to, right?

It was attempted assault on a foreign leader. The country is still trying to prove that it has some semblance of law and order. What should that have done? Thrown him a party?

[Strike For The South]

It was attempted assault on a foreign leader. The country is still trying to prove that it has some semblance of law and order. What should that have done? Thrown him a party?

No he should be punished and I think jail time is appropriate. 3 years just seems a tad much. I'd have given him 2.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

He did this in the wrong country.

Here in the USA, he'd have been given less than a year with most of that suspended and would probably have landed 3-4 paid interviews, a small book deal and a Reebok endorsement contract.

[rvg]

He did this in the wrong country.

Here in the USA, he'd have been given less than a year with most of that suspended and would probably have landed 3-4 paid interviews, a small book deal and a Reebok endorsement contract.

Provided that Secret Service wouldn't be quick enough to shoot him on the spot.

[Sheogorath]

3 years?! a bit much, IMO.

The guy's lucky the Secret Service didn't blow his head off the moment he threw something at the ex-President.

Seriously, where were they on that one? I'm surprised the guy wasn't at least tackled the moment he stood up.

[Rhyfelwyr]

3 years seems very harsh, he was only trying to make a point, not really harm Mr. Bush.

Although I'm also surprised he wasn't taken out on the spot.

[Thermal]

3 years? Murders can get less time than that on good behavior, shows where the worlds priorities are. I'm one to harshly judge but even I think 3 years for shoe throwing is wayyyyy to much, 3 months maybe....

[Major Robert Dump]

I think as time goes on, the definition for "assault" gets more and more absurd, and its nice to see the American definition is spreading to out protectorate. Attempted battery, maybe, but aggression against a visiting head of state? The guy missed FFS

Was it a steel-toe boot, was there cement in the heel, was it a shoe bomb? What about an egg to the side of the head or a pie in the face, or squirting Tom Cruise in the face with water?

What if the shoe were tossed at, say, a state Senator from Texas or the Governor of South Dakota or the chairman of the FCC, would it still be considered aggression against a visiting head of state? What if the head of state is not visiting, and he is, in fact, there on a guest worker program to do the job Iraqis don't want to do for themselves? What if its a former head of state, or a head of state up on corruption charges, or a head of state from a country considered the enemy?

Of course, regionally speaking, I'm surprised he got off this easy. I imagine if it were a woman tossing the shoe she would already be stoned to death

[LittleGrizzly]

Three years is way over the top, hell he even missed...

[CountArach]

I'm disappointed, but I expected this sort of thing. I'm sure the journalist did as well.

[Fragony]

It's a shoe . How much would he have gotten of it was a cake. Guy should be released it's completely harmless he doesn't belong in jail.

[Major Robert Dump]

I bet if he knew he was going to get such a stiff penalty, he would have thrown something else, like a dildo or a handful of poo.

[Lemur]

Folks, Iraqi law is very specific. Assaulting a head of state (meaning a non-Iraqi President/Prime Minister/Grand Chancellor/What-have-you) is punishable by up to fifteen years in prison. He got one fifth of the maximum sentence. Doesn't sound to me like the court was coming down hard on him.

However you want to spin it, he made a physical assault on a visiting head of state. Giving him a book deal and a suspended sentence would be a very bad thing.

[Sarmatian]

He did this in the wrong country.

Here in the USA, he'd have been given less than a year with most of that suspended and would probably have landed 3-4 paid interviews, a small book deal and a Reebok endorsement contract.

Actually he's a celebrity over there. I've read in the papers several months ago that some huge number of lawyers applied to represent him for free. I can't remember the exact number, but it was really huge, like 30,000 or more. One of the biggest shoe manufacturers in Turkey made a new model named after him. He'll cash it in, don't worry.

Hell, for the 10% of the amount he's gonna get, I'd be willing to spend those 3 years in jail instead of him.

I don't think 3 years in jail is too much. He did assault and insult a president of a foreign country visiting and insulted his own country in the process. Just because it was Bush and most people around the world found it cool doesn't change much. It's about the principle, not the person. And anyway, I don't think he's gonna be deprived of much in those 3 years in prison.

[CountArach]

He did assault and insult a president of a foreign country visiting and insulted his own country in the process.

What's wrong with insulting a head of state?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What's wrong with insulting a head of state?

In a scenario like that, especially, it is inappropriate. You could make the argument that it undermines diplomacy.

[Fragony]

It's about the principle, not the person.

Well yeah, throwing a shoe, 3 years in prison. That guy really doesn't belong in jail.

[Major Robert Dump]

That guy is an ungrateful degenerate who should have been thanking Bush because under Saddam Hussein people didn't even have shoes.

[CountArach]

In a scenario like that, especially, it is inappropriate. You could make the argument that it undermines diplomacy.

Do you honestly think that Bush then thought "Oh screw this - we're not going to reach XXXXX agreement with the Iraqi Government because some journalist not at all affiliated with the government threw a shoe at me"?

I don't honestly care whether or not it is inappropriate to insult a head of state - they are not, nor should they ever be, above criticism or the jibes of their fellow humans.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Do you honestly think that Bush then thought "Oh screw this - we're not going to reach XXXXX agreement with the Iraqi Government because some journalist not at all affiliated with the government threw a shoe at me"?

Well, all you need to ask yourself is what the Yes, Prime Minister quote for this is. It happens to be that (paraphrased) according to the Foreign Office, every state dinner by a Prime Minister with a foreign dignitary undoes about two years worth of diplomatic work (unless prearranged by the Civil Service, of course ) - so imagine what a shoe throw can do.

I don't honestly care whether or not it is inappropriate to insult a head of state - they are not, nor should they ever be, above criticism or the jibes of their fellow humans.

Not insulting doesn't mean that they're not above criticism, otherwise hordes of people would be arrested everytime a major world leader went anywhere.

[Xiahou]

I don't honestly care whether or not it is inappropriate to insult a head of state - they are not, nor should they ever be, above criticism or the jibes of their fellow humans.

You don't think it could be a problem if at every press Q&A with a foreign leader in your country any malcontent who wanted to could come in and shout insults and throw things at them?

Was it a steel-toe boot, was there cement in the heel, was it a shoe bomb?

Have someone nail you in the face as hard as they can with a pair of men's dress shoes and see if it feels like an assault. Sure he missed, but even in the US many (most?) states don't distinguish between attempted assault or assault- if you intended to do it, you did it. In my state, even simple assault, a misdemeanor, can get you sentenced for up to two years. Now if it was a bomb, or other deadly weapon, you'd have an attempted assassination- in that case, he'd be looking at a lot more than just 3 yrs and rightly so.

I think his sentence is reasonable and I doubt he'll do all 3 years anyway.

[a completely inoffensive name]

...

[Vuk]

Considering that those shoes COULD have seriously hurt the leader of the free world if they struck him in the temple or eye (which is a very real possibility), I think it is way too little. Not to mention the crime he did to his own country by representing them in such a way. I say death for this dirtbag.

[CountArach]

You don't think it could be a problem if at every press Q&A with a foreign leader in your country any malcontent who wanted to could come in and shout insults and throw things at them?

No problem with that at all. In fact it regularly used to be done when our former Prime Minister would go out on his morning walks. People didn't throw things, but he was called a lot of things that required a censor when they went to air.

[JAG]

3 years?! a bit much, IMO.

Yeah, 3 years too much.

Freedom of expression, speech - whatever you wanna say, he used it in a 'democracy'. So what if it was shoes thrown at a leader of a nation? So if I throw my shoes at someone on the street, I deserve 3 years jail time? Why the hell are leaders of nations more important? A citizen is a citizen, throwing shoes does NOT deserve jail time, in any democracy.

What it shoes really, is the grip the US has over the judicial and political system in Iraq and that really it is no real democracy. 3 years for making a political point, if we follow thta logic, lets lock up all of those in Iraq against the US invasion - oh dear, then there would be no country. The real criminal act in all this has been the actions of the US over the last 5 years, but fat chance getting them to sentencing.

On this logic, by the way, the woman who threw custard in our business secretary last week, should get what, 10 years? Because that not only hit him, but ruined his tie! :( But ah yes, we do live in a democracy, so she won't get any jail time.

[JAG]

Considering that those shoes COULD have seriously hurt the leader of the free world if they struck him in the temple or eye (which is a very real possibility), I think it is way too little. Not to mention the crime he did to his own country by representing them in such a way. I say death for this dirtbag.

If you base an argument purely on what might happen you can condone and construct such fancyful logic that anything becomes possible. It is the ultimate fools logic. But planes could crash?! OH NOES STOP THE AIRPORTS! But he could have got brushed by a shoe, LOCK THEM ALL UP!