Next Total War Possibilities

[Cyclops]

Wait...are you saying Cheng Ho didn't exist?

Wait...didn't you read my post?

I think the voyage of the Chinese treasure fleet is one of the most fascinating episodes in world history, a knife edge moment when a great power rolls its influence out in a kind of international thunderclap. It ranks in its potential with Columbus and Da Gama's voyages...you wonder what might have been if the policy had not been so firmly reversed. According to the EEP/AGC boys over at EU then they'd have suffered a -7 stab hit and a monster revolt increase but acquired Muslim (or was it Orthodox?) Tech.

However "gilding the lily" and pretending that the fleet visited Antartica or the moon or Italy is just embarrassing and degrades the discipline of history. I was refering in particular to the silly notion that Junks somehow sailed across the north coast of Asia to Scandinavia.

[desert]

However "gilding the lily" and pretending that the fleet visited Antartica or the moon or Italy is just embarrassing and degrades the discipline of history. I was refering in particular to the silly notion that Junks somehow sailed across the north coast of Asia to Scandinavia

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0_0 Never heard that one before.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, it was kind of ambiguous.

[bobbin]

It a book called 1421 by a guy called Gavin Menzies, it makes some fairly ridiculous claims based on some very shakey linguistics, non existant or disproven archeology (one structure in australia turned out to be a 150 year old retaining wall) and what basically boils down to his own opinion presented as fact.
His book also states thet he is an expert on chinese history despite not being A: able to read chinese or B: a historian (he's a retired royal navy captain if i remember correct).

He's also relased another book about how it was china that started the renaissance which from what i've heard is even more flawed.

[athanaric]

I think that there are quite a few Europeans and Americans who would like to play a TW game set in Eastern Asia. Also, what about Japanese and Koreans? Surely a lot of them would actually buy such a game, instead of pirating it?

As for a Rome II Total War, I don't believe it will be made. At least not during the next five to ten years.

[bovi]

I think that there are quite a few Europeans and Americans who would like to play a TW game set in Eastern Asia.

I tried Blue Lotus half an eternity ago, it was quite unfinished but probably has had much work since then. Perhaps that would satisfy some's thirst for Asian TW. It's hardly a realistic mod though.

[antisocialmunky]

It a book called 1421 by a guy called Gavin Menzies, it makes some fairly ridiculous claims based on some very shakey linguistics, non existant or disproven archeology (one structure in australia turned out to be a 150 year old retaining wall) and what basically boils down to his own opinion presented as fact.
His book also states thet he is an expert on chinese history despite not being A: able to read chinese or B: a historian (he's a retired royal navy captain if i remember correct).

He's also relased another book about how it was china that started the renaissance which from what i've heard is even more flawed.

I think that one of my friends told me to read that. He said it was fairly interesting summary of the Fleet until the author goes off the deep end starts talking about Trans-Pacific Voyages.

[Cyclops]

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0_0 Never heard that one before.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, it was kind of ambiguous.

No wucks. There's a general information defecit on Chinese history thats pretty embarrassing, so I understand if you react to just another guy seeming to downgrade the acheivemnets of a major world culture.

I think interest in Chinese history is increasing and games on the subject will become more viable commercially.

Comparisons are invidious of course but its hard not to "line 'em up" and rank "Rome vs China vs Persia" etc and its hard to position them in my mind. Not that i want to rank them from 1 to 10 or anything...actually I do. maybe in amore complex or appealing way, but I want a top 10. Top 10 what? I don't even know.

Part of the probelm is the Yellow Rivers relative isolation from the other 3 great cradles of the Old World (the Indus, Mesopotamia and Nile). A great culture like persian has cast a cultural shadow over central Asia and Northern India, and heavily contributed to Islamic, Turkic, Greek and numerous other cultures and subcultures. Of course they are the heirs to preexisting Mesopotamian and Indus cultures. When Greeks and persians collide, first Cyrus wins a partial victory, then Xerxes gets stymied, then Alexander scores a Heroic Victory, so if you want to rank them militarily, theres a clear outcome. Culturally you can talk about Persia's amazing literary legacy (esp. poetry) and as a court language across many cultures, vs Greeks tradition of systemic thought which is so important in science. Which one wins? Maybe Greek but by golly its a close run thing.

With China the outside contacts are more tenuous and you can't say Legions ftw vs crossbow chariots. China famously absorbed anyone who ever conquered them (well mostly) so were they militarily weak, culturally strong, or what? Definitely worth exploring those ideas in a game format. How do you model Manchu or Mongol overlords becoming Sinicised? Not to mention the interesting ideas of trade-as-diplomacy, and the mandate of heaven.

[desert]

How do you model Manchu or Mongol overlords becoming Sinicised? Not to mention the interesting ideas of trade-as-diplomacy, and the mandate of heaven.

I don't really think you should, because that would mean you got conquered.
I'm usually fine with the Yuan Dynasty, but not when it's developing over my FL's dead body.

[IrishHitman]

Wait...didn't you read my post?

I think the voyage of the Chinese treasure fleet is one of the most fascinating episodes in world history, a knife edge moment when a great power rolls its influence out in a kind of international thunderclap. It ranks in its potential with Columbus and Da Gama's voyages...you wonder what might have been if the policy had not been so firmly reversed. According to the EEP/AGC boys over at EU then they'd have suffered a -7 stab hit and a monster revolt increase but acquired Muslim (or was it Orthodox?) Tech.

However "gilding the lily" and pretending that the fleet visited Antartica or the moon or Italy is just embarrassing and degrades the discipline of history. I was refering in particular to the silly notion that Junks somehow sailed across the north coast of Asia to Scandinavia.

It was more impressive than Columbus or Da Gama...
They had a military and trade purposes as well as exploration...