Battles B.C.

[Aemilius Paulus]

So really, any Americans here that have watched PBS? The problem is money. History Channel makes more money showing the crap it runs today than the material they displayed ten years ago. Sad but true. That is what capitalism does (not that I am a communist/socialist myself). You want to make money, so you have to abandon the few history nerds that watched your channel and move your viewer base to the general public, the plebeians, for the lack of a better word.

I would have done the same. Why should I care about people who want to learn history by watching TV? Let them read books! That is where the real information is. A ten hour documentary cannot teach as much as a 100-page book. So what I would do, being the owner of the channel, is attempt to make more money. And creating sensational, gory, Hollywood-style history is what brings people in. And then those deluded persons believe they are actually "learning" by watching an "educational" "documentary".

[SwissBarbar]

THIS. IS. CARTHAGE!!!

Also, why did they have an anthropologist commenting on the battle of Cannae and what the hell is Hasdrubals cowvalry?

great

Positive effect: It may arise people's interest in history (yes, I know, to me too it's hard to believe, that there are some few, who are not interested in history )

Negative points: Monster-Hannibal? Romans at cannae all wearing muscular-cuirass? Nooooo

[Cyrus]

Man that stunk!!!!!!!!!! Worse than wet dog.
Oh and I would like to add that many people here (including me) if not for EB would have noticed only half of the many things wrong in that "documentary" (so thank you very much EBteam), and that is thanks to paying attention in history class. But there is one thing that puzzles me, why the screming hannibal? They could have just as well made him someone in the back looking and enjoiyng the fighting, or even a silent killer if we want to get out ov historical perspective. I doubt many generals would get theyr hands that dirty, especially a future sophet......
Oh and did anyone notice the resemblance to the Star Wars 3 scene? When Anykin slits Duku?
The only difference between those two characters seems to be the lightsabers.........
Edit oh and i didn't mean to offend anyone by "many people here"

[Aemilius Paulus]

Positive effect: It may arise people's interest in history

Oh yeah? What kind of history? Vanilla RTW and more History Channel?? That is the path of 99% of the History Channel's viewers.

Television does not seem like the best place to get anyone interested in anything. My interest in history began when my father gave me a history book, an illustrated encyclopaedia on the history of the world from Medieval times to 1914. It was quite a thick book, and it also happened to be the first book I have read on my own. Then, I received three more books of the same series. One was on geography and the other two were on general science and physics. The two were very complicated actually, not surprising I suppose, given that it was my uncle, an astrophysicist, who gave them to me.

But all that aside, those books shaped my interests for life. I like history, science, geography, psychology, and economics. If every parent did the same, this world would be a much better place. Children should start out with books and not television.

[Hax]

Oh yeah? What kind of history? Vanilla RTW and more History Channel??

Name another game that included Hastati, Principes and Triarii.

[Cyrus]

None AFAIK.
So some credit is due to CA......

[SwissBarbar]

Oh yeah? What kind of history? Vanilla RTW and more History Channel?? That is the path of 99% of the History Channel's viewers.

Television does not seem like the best place to get anyone interested in anything. My interest in history began when my father gave me a history book, an illustrated encyclopaedia on the history of the world from Medieval times to 1914. It was quite a thick book, and it also happened to be the first book I have read on my own. Then, I received three more books of the same series. One was on geography and the other two were on general science and physics. The two were very complicated actually, not surprising I suppose, given that it was my uncle, an astrophysicist, who gave them to me.

But all that aside, those books shaped my interests for life. I like history, science, geography, psychology, and economics. If every parent did the same, this world would be a much better place. Children should start out with books and not television.

And because it happened to you, it has to happen so for everyone? For example my interest in ancient history began when I was a child, reading fictional Asterix-Comics. Another person may see a good - or at least impressive film - and inform himself about the history the film was about on wikipedia - then in another fictional book - may visit a museum - and if he's getting more and more excited, in the end he will even read accurate sources. No one starts with reading Cicero or Herodot! Consider yourself lucky that you got such an uncle, not everyone has, you know?

[Kikaz]

*Next big History Channel series: Battle Brennus; Watch as Brennus filets Roman Legionnaires garbed in Lorica Segmentata with dual Bruce Campbell-style chainsaw hands!*

[antisocialmunky]

They have alot of the old documentaries that aired in the 90s that were pretty good. I mainly watch it for some of those older ones and some interesting new stuff. Its basically where all the old stuff from Discovery Channel goes like "Walking With Dinosaurs" and stuff.

[DaciaJC]

"As Joshua's army parades around the walled city for six days, the Israelites sneak special ops forces into Rahab's house. Once they amass forty soldiers inside, Joshua and his army outside the city blow their horns and attack. The forty troops inside catch the city completely unaware, and the city falls."

Now it's my turn to say "WTH". I can't accept such flagrant re-telling of documented events such as THC is trying to pose here. Where in the Bible does one find any mention of SpecOps troops inside of Jericho? The only way I can see them with coming up with that is by using the spies as these "special forces". How you make 40 soldiers out of 2 spies, though, is beyond me.

As far as I'm concerned, THC can continue coming up with the garbage that is Ice Road Truckers/Axemen/UFO Hunters/MonsterQuest instead of deliberately feeding the public sensationalized history.

[antisocialmunky]

That guy has alot of theories. History Channel gave him a whole special about biblical battles. I guess they felt like he deserved another one or they just rehashed footage for the cheap fail.

[Conan]

Pah!!...

This stuff seems pretty accurate to me...

You guys never read the sources that tell of Hannibal decapitating two dozen Romans with one swing of his penis?

*Honestly... yes I vomited after seeing this*

[Aurgelmir]

Name another game that included Hastati, Principes and Triarii.

Grand Ages:Rome..?



I must say that the footage doesn't look bad...from a technical point of view.But that is the only (good) thing about it.

Imagine that there where no names involved,so no hannibal or cannea(is this correct spelling?)
And people had to guess...lol it looked like fantasy persians against fantasy greeks

10 years ago i wanted that docu's get good special effects,rather then c-acting barbarians vs (my gladius got stuck/my helmet falls off)romans

Now finally they have the shit what they need to do it.....and they fukk it up.Some historians should sew there asses for implanting false info to the young ones/unknowing olders

[Rilder]

I wouldn't go far as suing, I would however try get and get them to put a disclaimer before the show starts that says "Warning nothing of what you are about to see is fact, if you want to know what really happened read about it at your local library or post about this show on the Europa Barbarorum forums and get told what really happened"

[A Very Super Market]

Honestly, this is just "fake" awesomness as well, since I don't get a 300 feeling from it at all. Its a bit like an old man trying to win over teens by repeatedly saying "homeboy", or anything from Disney nowadays.

[Owen Glyndwr]

Oh yeah? What kind of history? Vanilla RTW and more History Channel?? That is the path of 99% of the History Channel's viewers.

Television does not seem like the best place to get anyone interested in anything. My interest in history began when my father gave me a history book, an illustrated encyclopaedia on the history of the world from Medieval times to 1914. It was quite a thick book, and it also happened to be the first book I have read on my own. Then, I received three more books of the same series. One was on geography and the other two were on general science and physics. The two were very complicated actually, not surprising I suppose, given that it was my uncle, an astrophysicist, who gave them to me.

But all that aside, those books shaped my interests for life. I like history, science, geography, psychology, and economics. If every parent did the same, this world would be a much better place. Children should start out with books and not television.

Oh yeah? Me too.

My interest in history started initially when my Dad read me a biography on Alexander the Great every night when I was about 6. I do agree that not everyone learns in the same way, but I think that by starting with reading, good things are bound to happen.

[mlc82]

Name another game that included Hastati, Principes and Triarii.

The truly awesome yet barely remember "Great Battles of Hannibal" wargame. I've yet to find any other game that crashes so constantly on WinXP, along with the other excellent two in the series, Great Battles of Alexander and Caesar. I want to get a Win98 PC to play these and "Age of Rifles" again in their full glory.

Only ancient era games I've ever seen that give any sense of the real scale of some of those battles...

[Husker98]

"Warning nothing of what you are about to see is fact, if you want to know what really happened read about it at your local library or post about this show on the Europa Barbarorum forums and get told what really happened"

i like ur disclaimer they need to use it. and another thing ppl watch alot of TV period. im in communications and journalism school and the rapid decline of news papers and other journalistic material has alot of my fellow students futures in doubt. a large percentage of people just dont read books anymore, especially history books. they, unlike us, find them boring. so i can see why history channel is trying to spice things up a bit but i am still disappointed, im mean y not us EB like they use to do with vanilla RTW on that ancient battle show? i forget the name of it but it was cool show were they used vanilla total war to show how the battle developed, and i was a frequent watcher.

[heldelance]

Personally I think this would be a totally awesome show, I just wish they wouldn't market it as a historically accurate thing. They should say that it's history from an entertainment standpoint. I for one love my action movies and shows, 300 was awesome despite not being true history.

[Macilrille]

"It's ridiculous. Have you read under "upcoming episodes"? They have an episode about David, obviously based on what is written in the bible, although it's not certain if he even existed! And may I quote from the description of the episode "Joshua: Epic Slaughter":"


Vuk is going to love that, Old testament as Source...

Not that it cannot be used as a source for its time, correlated with other sources; "one source is no source" we often say here. I am just vary of it and other religious texts and people who rely solely on them.

[Macilrille]

Dutchhoplite is right, in fact this is a very good example of something the Romans at least knew very well, keep the people docile and unthinking byt feeding them trivialities. The Romans called it bread and shows...

[Macilrille]

"Kids in my school seem to think I am a smart nerd, so they always run to me and brag how "they watched the History Channel" yesterday as if it is some exceptional intellectual achievement. I may be a snob and an "elitist" but I do not approve of getting one's own knowledge from television. I read books. I believe I am actually making some effort to learn. Sitting in a couch, devouring and masticating crisps (chips), gurgling a soft drink and then claiming to be "smart" is not something I accept."

for you.

My own nephew got heavily influenced by his uncle (my sis is 10 years older than I, and got him early, so he is but 11 years younger than me and one of my friends as well as my kin). He too is a Viking re-enactor and has a Master's Degree in History, exactly like his uncle. He also loves games like this one and roleplays. In fact besides working at a museum he makes a living by propagating history through live roleplaying.

I am rather proud of him in fact :-)

But, I cannot also help thinking that we should not "whine", rather do something about it. Live Roleplaying or games like EB, even Vanilla... those are the ways to go I think.

There is more and more need for actual valid history online. The 6th-Graders I taught last week did not look in libraries for information until I forced them to. They used the net.

[antisocialmunky]

We could always reenact battles online and then narrate them after EBII comes out.

[Aurgelmir]

I wouldn't go far as suing, I would however try get and get them to put a disclaimer before the show starts that says "Warning nothing of what you are about to see is fact, if you want to know what really happened read about it at your local library or post about this show on the Europa Barbarorum forums and get told what really happened"

hm that makes me think...I guess they will do that disclaimer thing....is it an american show or british?

I think there will be people(historians)who are not happy with something like that.

[Africanvs]

Someone earlier said something about not learning from TV but to pick up a book. They couldn't be more right. It might be interesting to note that THC is owned by General Electric Corp. who also owns NBC and several other networks and stations. GE is a corporation interested in profts. As far as TV is concerned, the point is to keep you entertained, so you tune in, and they can make ratings which translate to big advertising dollars. 300 was a popular movie which made a lot of money. The execs at THC, or whoever had the idea, figured that if they make a series based on a popular movie, it will get good ratings, just lke the spartan special they aired during the release of 300 did. Their job is not to be accurate, their job is to make money. There is crap peddled for truth on TV every day on the network news, why should the history channel be any different. Use TV for what it is, entertainment. But again, we should all be happy that we are intelligent enough to know the difference.

[satalexton]

and woe to the sad fact that most of the world don't =[

[Aemilius Paulus]

and woe to the sad fact that most of the world don't =[

Well, now, lets not turn into those elitists now. The world may not know history like we do, but they know other things. Everyone has their own interest, be it computers, machinery, agriculture, philosophy, anatomy, law, etc, etc. They too have their own elitist groups where they sit in a circle, one leg crossed on top of the other, and bemoan how uneducated the rest of the world is and how enlightened they are. No one likes such groups. No reason why we should turn into such.

No one can learn everything. Instead, people prioritise. And as far as education goes, sorry to say this, but history is basically the most impractical and useless thing to learn. I am an avid history fan. History is my life. Yet I recognise this fact to be true. There is some use in history, but compared to other things, it is basically useless.

[Cyrus]

Yeah, that-s the great thing about history, it-s end is itself! By end i mean final objective. Still you are right up to a certain point AP many people like me don-t just stop at history, i went on with philosophy, languages, and the study of ethnicities( wich i have no idea how it-s called in English) so to really be enlightened one must embrace all paths of knowledge (i am shure i ve heard someone famous said that, but cant remember who sry)

[Africanvs]

Well, now, lets not turn into those elitists now. The world may not know history like we do, but they know other things. Everyone has their own interest, be it computers, machinery, agriculture, philosophy, anatomy, law, etc, etc. They too have their own elitist groups where they sit in a circle, one leg crossed on top of the other, and bemoan how uneducated the rest of the world is and how enlightened they are. No one likes such groups. No reason why we should turn into such.

No one can learn everyting. Instead, people prioritise. And as far as education goes, sorry to say this, but history is basically the msot impractical and useless thign to learn. I am an avid history fan. History is my life. Yet I recognise this fact to be true. There is some use in history, but compared to other things, it is basically useless.

I agree with you on the point of avoiding elitism, but I think he meant that it's too bad they don't know the truth in this situation.

As far as history being impractical and useless, I would have to agree to differ. I believe history to be one of the most important ingredients in a quality education. I suppose it boils down to every individual and how they measure things of importance, usefullness, and success in general.

[Pontius Pilate]

Well, now, lets not turn into those elitists now. The world may not know history like we do, but they know other things. Everyone has their own interest, be it computers, machinery, agriculture, philosophy, anatomy, law, etc, etc. They too have their own elitist groups where they sit in a circle, one leg crossed on top of the other, and bemoan how uneducated the rest of the world is and how enlightened they are. No one likes such groups. No reason why we should turn into such.

Finally, something positive out of this thread!

So really, any Americans here that have watched PBS?

I have actually watched a few of their programs.

but history is basically the msot impractical and useless thign to learn. There is some use in history, but compared to other things, it is basically useless.

perhaps, but isn't it this kind of thinking that causes people and societies to repeat history and the mistakes of the past?

anyway, I saw the entire Hannibal episode on TV. it wasn't very historical as many of you mentioned, but it was somewhat entertaining, to an extent. I mean, its not like I went into it expecting to get an education.