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Thread: Empire's Expansion
New theatres! New theatres by FAR. :D
Have South America opened up with stacks (And I mean STACKS) of Aztecs/Incas (Or whoever was around at that point) and loads of wealth to be had. Bring open Asia, China and Japan could be the key features there. Most importantly they should get around to opening up Africa, it's weird that it's there on the European theatre but you can't go down!
Eventually I'd like to see the whole world represented, so we can really sandbox and do what we want.
Mmm.. World Total War.
:D
Have South America opened up with stacks (And I mean STACKS) of Aztecs/Incas (Or whoever was around at that point) and loads of wealth to be had. Bring open Asia, China and Japan could be the key features there. Most importantly they should get around to opening up Africa, it's weird that it's there on the European theatre but you can't go down!
Eventually I'd like to see the whole world represented, so we can really sandbox and do what we want.
Mmm.. World Total War.
:D
I'm almost certain the expansion will revolve around Neopolean in some way (or at least if it is M2TW:Kingdom's style, part will feature Neopolean). It just seems the simplest extension of the engine, and has a marketing zing. I think at lot of the suggestions in this thread would be more likely as the next game, rather than expansion, although who knows what that will be.
add asia and expand the timeline by 50 years.
If they ever wanted to build a whole world total war game they certainly have the means and a interesting time period, along with a nice set of factions.
So if they wanted to extend the timetable 50 years and add in other areas I'd be fine with that. Though I did enjoy kingdoms style of cinematic gameplay.
I'm actually thinking it would be far more likely they would add other smaller regions in or even years as part of Downloadable Content rather then a expansion, but that's just me.
So if they wanted to extend the timetable 50 years and add in other areas I'd be fine with that. Though I did enjoy kingdoms style of cinematic gameplay.
I'm actually thinking it would be far more likely they would add other smaller regions in or even years as part of Downloadable Content rather then a expansion, but that's just me.
I've been thinking Napoleonic Wars, American Civil War, and perhaps a step back in time with the English Civil War.
How about the English Civil War? Or is that too M2:TW?
Good lord, 5 years and only 5 posts?
No, I don't think the English Civil war would be an acceptable expansion. With Alexander and Rome, you at least have the familiar units, but the 17th and 18th centuries were remarkably different.
No, I don't think the English Civil war would be an acceptable expansion. With Alexander and Rome, you at least have the familiar units, but the 17th and 18th centuries were remarkably different.
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market:
Good lord, 5 years and only 5 posts?
No, I don't think the English Civil war would be an acceptable expansion. With Alexander and Rome, you at least have the familiar units, but the 17th and 18th centuries were remarkably different.
5 posts? There's another page y'know. I'm confuddled. Good lord, 5 years and only 5 posts?
No, I don't think the English Civil war would be an acceptable expansion. With Alexander and Rome, you at least have the familiar units, but the 17th and 18th centuries were remarkably different.
He was referring to Harlequeen's postcount
I agree with those talking about Napoleon and other major conflicts of the first half of the 19th century, but I don't think it should be split into mini-campaigns like Kingdoms. Napoleon's campaigns had transatlantic implications, as did British efforts to impede American trade at that time, leading to the War of 1812. All of these things would be lost if you had a Napoleonic expansion that covered only Europe and the Middle East/North Africa.
Imagine: What if you're Napoleon, and you decide not to sell Louisiana to Jefferson? What if you decide invading Russia isn't such a good idea, but maybe a 2nd try in the Middle East and beyond toward India looks better?
They could even expand the campaign map to include all of South America, more of Africa and Asia. Imagine playing as Spain and trying to retain your South American colonies, or trying to win independence playing as Simon Bolivar.
And then there's the American West. I agree that the Civil War is a bridge too far because warfare had evolved too much by then, but what if we take things out to about 1850 and cover the Mexican War and other real or potential conflicts related to "Manifest Destiny"? The U.S. and U.K. nearly came to blows again over border disputes in that timeframe. I could also see a player as Russia experimenting with a more bold posture expanding into the Pacific Northwest ...
That period would involve innovations like railroads and ironclads, making it different economically if not too much tactically from Empire. Maybe that's a whole new game in itself ..
Then ... the next full game could cover 1850-1900: Global Total War. The whole world covered in one big map, like EU. The beginnings of modern tactics. They'd have to go even deeper on the political, diplomatic and economic fronts. Major regional conflicts/issues like the American Civil War and the unification of Germany and Italy could be covered through mission-based mini-campaigns like RTI (but hopefully deeper and more accurate than RTI).
Imagine: What if you're Napoleon, and you decide not to sell Louisiana to Jefferson? What if you decide invading Russia isn't such a good idea, but maybe a 2nd try in the Middle East and beyond toward India looks better?
They could even expand the campaign map to include all of South America, more of Africa and Asia. Imagine playing as Spain and trying to retain your South American colonies, or trying to win independence playing as Simon Bolivar.
And then there's the American West. I agree that the Civil War is a bridge too far because warfare had evolved too much by then, but what if we take things out to about 1850 and cover the Mexican War and other real or potential conflicts related to "Manifest Destiny"? The U.S. and U.K. nearly came to blows again over border disputes in that timeframe. I could also see a player as Russia experimenting with a more bold posture expanding into the Pacific Northwest ...
That period would involve innovations like railroads and ironclads, making it different economically if not too much tactically from Empire. Maybe that's a whole new game in itself ..
Then ... the next full game could cover 1850-1900: Global Total War. The whole world covered in one big map, like EU. The beginnings of modern tactics. They'd have to go even deeper on the political, diplomatic and economic fronts. Major regional conflicts/issues like the American Civil War and the unification of Germany and Italy could be covered through mission-based mini-campaigns like RTI (but hopefully deeper and more accurate than RTI).
I'd say (and with the current engine would like to see) a new campaign from 1800 - 1860 or abouts.
Well the smart money is on the Revolution/Napoleonic wars obviously.
The historical-precedent money however is on something with an invasion by a loud, barbaric people.... maybe a US-invades-europe scenario? ;)
The historical-precedent money however is on something with an invasion by a loud, barbaric people.... maybe a US-invades-europe scenario? ;)
Originally Posted by Daevyll:
Well the smart money is on the Revolution/Napoleonic wars obviously.
The historical-precedent money however is on something with an invasion by a loud, barbaric people.... maybe a US-invades-europe scenario? ;)
You imply that Napoleon's expansion across Europe wasn't "an invasion by a loud, barbaric people"? ;)Well the smart money is on the Revolution/Napoleonic wars obviously.
The historical-precedent money however is on something with an invasion by a loud, barbaric people.... maybe a US-invades-europe scenario? ;)
Well, the French are more quiet and sneering...
Originally Posted by Lusitani:
I think that the period between 1800-1914 would be the most interesting to cover.It is ,however, huge. .
I highly doubt we'll ever see anything past the Crimean War with the TW battle model; the 1860s were the bookend to the days of close order drill, cavalry, close-support artillery, and set piece battles. While none of those things ever fell entirely out of the equation, by the mid 19th century:I think that the period between 1800-1914 would be the most interesting to cover.It is ,however, huge. .
The defensive infantry doctrines were coming into dominance (even if they weren't fully understood until the carnage of WWI made them impossible to ignore); Cavalry ceased to be a meaningful element of tactics and simply a means of getting infantry around faster; Rifled, precision artillery made the guns both immensely long-ranged and terribly powerful; command decisions were moved ever more steadily towards front-line officers and away from the field staff, changing major battles into a morass of tiny engagements between companies and regiments instead of a grandly architected movement of armies.
Not to say I wouldn't mind seeing them try, but the basic battle model hasn't changed since Shogun.
Napoleonic is an obvious path and the engine could go toward the ACW, (infantry fought shoulder to shoulder and in line much more than one could imagine,the attackers always to be honest). But I'll see also a step back to cover the gap from the end of MTW2. You had a lot of very interesting war, with increasing development of weapons and tactics in land and sea warfare. From the pike and arquebuses of the Renaissance (Melegnano, Pavia) to the caracole and leather guns of Gustavus Adolphus (Breitenberg, Lutzen, Nordlingen) the siege masterworks of Duke of Alba or Spinola, the Grand Condè's Cavalry charge at Rocroi, the strategic laces of Turenne, Cromwell against Rupert, Drake and the Invincible Armada, Monck and De Ruyter, Iberville, Doria, Don Juan or Kheirredin.
Originally Posted by Ordani:
I highly doubt we'll ever see anything past the Crimean War with the TW battle model; the 1860s were the bookend to the days of close order drill, cavalry, close-support artillery, and set piece battles. While none of those things ever fell entirely out of the equation, by the mid 19th century:
...
Not to say I wouldn't mind seeing them try, but the basic battle model hasn't changed since Shogun.
Couldn't agree more. And since CA probably does now all of that as well, I'd say it's highly unlikely that there will be another TW game covering the decades after ~1860. Which implies that the Napoleonic period can only be done as an expansion (to ETW).I highly doubt we'll ever see anything past the Crimean War with the TW battle model; the 1860s were the bookend to the days of close order drill, cavalry, close-support artillery, and set piece battles. While none of those things ever fell entirely out of the equation, by the mid 19th century:
...
Not to say I wouldn't mind seeing them try, but the basic battle model hasn't changed since Shogun.
Personally I'd like to see MTW like starting years / different scenarios on the current (or larger map).
The absolute dream would be to have map area plug ins, to gradually fill the world with the map, Asia, the Pacific and so on, then extend the game into the Napoleonic era, and hopefully extend past that until 1900 (fingers crossed)
Also the 1860+ period could easily be done, just with a much larger emphasis on loose order troops, units of 60 men spread out with single shot bolt actions and the ability to go prone and make even more use of cover would be easily possible and awesomely fun.
Furthermore, towards the end of the period it's entirely possible to have the emphasis shift within the game from cavalry to infantry just like real life, we have technology research and everything and having the game shift in this way would just add more flavour to the game rather then ruining it. Even in the late ETW game i find cavalry easier to destroy with long range riflemen becoming available.
Also i desperatly want to see pickelhaubes in a game :P So we have to go 1842-71 at least!
Also the 1860+ period could easily be done, just with a much larger emphasis on loose order troops, units of 60 men spread out with single shot bolt actions and the ability to go prone and make even more use of cover would be easily possible and awesomely fun.
Furthermore, towards the end of the period it's entirely possible to have the emphasis shift within the game from cavalry to infantry just like real life, we have technology research and everything and having the game shift in this way would just add more flavour to the game rather then ruining it. Even in the late ETW game i find cavalry easier to destroy with long range riflemen becoming available.
Also i desperatly want to see pickelhaubes in a game :P So we have to go 1842-71 at least!
1800 - 1900 :-)
I can even see tanks working pretty good in this engine :-)
I can even see tanks working pretty good in this engine :-)
I guess Napoleonic is the obvious candidate, but the thing is it's hard to see how it would be very different to the Empire GC; it just seems like the GC with a maxed-out tech tree, and a few shifts in territory and government type. I think it would fit in better with Zoring's idea of having multiple plug-ins downloadable from Steam rather than a single £20 expansion; it would simply be a new starting date for the Grand Campaign.
Actually, I think the idea of smaller plug-ins is a good one; there seem to be a lot of possible settings which would be interesting but a bit too focussed or close to the GC to make up a full expansion. There could also be plug-ins to simply extend the GC in area or period.
I think they should probably steer clear of anything pre-1700, simply because my second favourite setting for the next full game (after a Far East setting) would be 1500-1700. Similarly, I still hold out faint hopes that one day we will reach the point where the TW engine can do the period 1860-1920 justice; certainly not in the next game, probably not the one after that, but one day. I'd hate to see them try it too soon and thus mess it up though, so I'd prefer they leave that period untapped for now.
Actually, I think the idea of smaller plug-ins is a good one; there seem to be a lot of possible settings which would be interesting but a bit too focussed or close to the GC to make up a full expansion. There could also be plug-ins to simply extend the GC in area or period.
I think they should probably steer clear of anything pre-1700, simply because my second favourite setting for the next full game (after a Far East setting) would be 1500-1700. Similarly, I still hold out faint hopes that one day we will reach the point where the TW engine can do the period 1860-1920 justice; certainly not in the next game, probably not the one after that, but one day. I'd hate to see them try it too soon and thus mess it up though, so I'd prefer they leave that period untapped for now.
I love these topics in which everybody gives his opinion without reading other people's posts, thus quickly creating a loop of
" - Napoleonic War is the obvious choice. The ACW saw significant improvement in the art of warfare and wouldn't translate well with ETW gameplay.
- ACW would be awesome, machinguns, armored steamships and what not! Napoleon is boring.
- I can't see CA going farther than the mid-19th century. Warfare evolved quite a lot by then, and the rank and file battles of ETW mostly disappeared.
- CA should add more territories: all of the Americas (with Maya), Africa (with Ape-riding black fighters of death) and Asia (mongols, samurais, kung-fu monks!) and extend the timeline to at least 1945!!!"
" - Napoleonic War is the obvious choice. The ACW saw significant improvement in the art of warfare and wouldn't translate well with ETW gameplay.
- ACW would be awesome, machinguns, armored steamships and what not! Napoleon is boring.
- I can't see CA going farther than the mid-19th century. Warfare evolved quite a lot by then, and the rank and file battles of ETW mostly disappeared.
- CA should add more territories: all of the Americas (with Maya), Africa (with Ape-riding black fighters of death) and Asia (mongols, samurais, kung-fu monks!) and extend the timeline to at least 1945!!!"
Originally Posted by Meneldil:
I love these topics in which everybody gives his opinion without reading other people's posts, thus quickly creating a loop of
" - Napoleonic War is the obvious choice. The ACW saw significant improvement in the art of warfare and wouldn't translate well with ETW gameplay.
- ACW would be awesome, machinguns, armored steamships and what not! Napoleon is boring.
- I can't see CA going farther than the mid-19th century. Warfare evolved quite a lot by then, and the rank and file battles of ETW mostly disappeared.
- CA should add more territories: all of the Americas (with Maya), Africa (with Ape-riding black fighters of death) and Asia (mongols, samurais, kung-fu monks!) and extend the timeline to at least 1945!!!"
Ape-riding black fighters of death...I love these topics in which everybody gives his opinion without reading other people's posts, thus quickly creating a loop of
" - Napoleonic War is the obvious choice. The ACW saw significant improvement in the art of warfare and wouldn't translate well with ETW gameplay.
- ACW would be awesome, machinguns, armored steamships and what not! Napoleon is boring.
- I can't see CA going farther than the mid-19th century. Warfare evolved quite a lot by then, and the rank and file battles of ETW mostly disappeared.
- CA should add more territories: all of the Americas (with Maya), Africa (with Ape-riding black fighters of death) and Asia (mongols, samurais, kung-fu monks!) and extend the timeline to at least 1945!!!"
what the heck have you been smoking?
Originally Posted by Hax:
No American Civil War please. Instead expand the map to include China, the South-East Indies with settlements as well as Japan.
Hax 4 teh winNo American Civil War please. Instead expand the map to include China, the South-East Indies with settlements as well as Japan.
To be perfect it has to have the following:
- map extended to include the whole world
- timeline extended to 1899
- tech tree extended to include everything up to the Dreadnought, radio and other major achievements
Then the Grand Campaign would make a perfect TW game, even in its vanilla state. Mods would probably make it godlike.
- map extended to include the whole world
- timeline extended to 1899
- tech tree extended to include everything up to the Dreadnought, radio and other major achievements
Then the Grand Campaign would make a perfect TW game, even in its vanilla state. Mods would probably make it godlike.
I was thinking it would be cool to do a campaign playing as the Native Americans. They could add a lot more of the tribes and cover the North, Central, and Southern Americas. You could then turn the tide and force the Europeans out of the Americas.
Only problem is the engine may not support native tactics. It's hilarious in ETW to play against natives who are forming lines and riding in formation.
Only problem is the engine may not support native tactics. It's hilarious in ETW to play against natives who are forming lines and riding in formation.
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market:
Good lord, 5 years and only 5 posts?
900 in 2 months is more shocking to me Good lord, 5 years and only 5 posts?
Unless they come packaged with a ton of other mods, they better not just shove a civil war or Napoleon down our throats.
Outside of America, nobody cares to see American civil war included...or many inside like myself. I really cant justify to myself napoleon, for the same reason they didnt make "Rome Total War: Hannibal". The napoleon Empire was very short lived anyway.
Like others I would like to see asia explored....revisit Japan.
Originally Posted by Callahan9119:
Outside of America, nobody cares to see American civil war included...or many inside like myself. I really cant justify to myself napoleon, for the same reason they didnt make "Rome Total War: Hannibal". The napoleon Empire was very short lived anyway.
Like others I would like to see asia explored....revisit Japan.
FWIW, at the AGEOD forums there are a lot of non-Americans who play their American Civil War game and comment in the forums. They say it holds their interest because of the high stakes involved in preserving the Union and big moral storyline of abolishing slavery, and because it's one of the first major examples of the shift toward "modern" total war. Outside of America, nobody cares to see American civil war included...or many inside like myself. I really cant justify to myself napoleon, for the same reason they didnt make "Rome Total War: Hannibal". The napoleon Empire was very short lived anyway.
Like others I would like to see asia explored....revisit Japan.
In the case of the Total War franchise, the U.S. Civil War could work as either part of a larger campaign covering early/mid century or a mission-based mini-campaign like RTI (Objective 1: win enough battles in the first two years to keep Britain and France out. Objective 2: close off all CSA trade with a naval blockade and by taking the Mississippi River ports, etc.). But hopefully they wouldn't start off with Lee's army in Tennessee, as they started RTI Episode 3 with General Howe's army in Maine instead of New York ...
As for Napoleon, it would seem to require an even more in-depth Europe map with shorter turns (1 month), but still including the other theaters because they were still relevant.
Originally Posted by Bob the Insane:
Agreed...
In my opinion we could go all the way up to 1900. Other than the intorduction of rail ways there was no real change in how the world worked up to that point. Everything they had was just an evolved version of what you see in ETW.. To make it even more fun they could add africa to to map. The Battle of Isandlwana!! They could also expand the US map west. The new design of theatres allows for this, the individual campign maps do not have ot be bigger, they could simply add more...
The 19th century is packed full of conflict all over the globe...
The potential mod I am looking forward to the most would the age of discovery. Shot and Pike, early artillery, collonization races...
This would be ideal, a total world map running up to the year 1900 (Total World War can be the release after that followed by Total World War 2) All we need is periodic changes in units uniforms and equipment which could be handled like the Marian reforms in Rome games etc and an expanded tech/resource tree. That way the game could be much more free flowing and allow for endless scenarios. If CA wanted to supplement this grand endeavour with conflict specific add ons then that would be ok too.Agreed...
In my opinion we could go all the way up to 1900. Other than the intorduction of rail ways there was no real change in how the world worked up to that point. Everything they had was just an evolved version of what you see in ETW.. To make it even more fun they could add africa to to map. The Battle of Isandlwana!! They could also expand the US map west. The new design of theatres allows for this, the individual campign maps do not have ot be bigger, they could simply add more...
The 19th century is packed full of conflict all over the globe...
The potential mod I am looking forward to the most would the age of discovery. Shot and Pike, early artillery, collonization races...
PS hope we never get to the stage of 'SPACE 1999 TOTAL WAR' lol
Bartix Total War?
Maybe?
Maybe?
Hmm Could I respectfully but absolutely disagree to the idea that the ACW wasn't fought in line formation? Certainly not line on the whole battlefront, (but this is true starting, at last, from the refused wing of Frederik the Great) but "every" single unit from regiment to division fought and fired, or tried it, shoulder to shoulder with colonel, brigadier and above always struggling, and so many times with no result, to have advance exactly in time and tempo with the side units. BTW if you see how the units in the Madminutegames "take Command" series (the best tactical ACW wargame on the market) move and fight you'll see that is identical to ETW!
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