My post on the Sweden thread

[Togakure]

It is not in the Org proper, it is in the Backroom Watchertower, which is the correct place for it, and a place that anyone who does not want to go to the Backroom should avoid.

My, my. Mr. Pissed Off is gonna snarl at anyone and everyone who annoys him or doesn't take his side, hmm? You are unhappy, so you're gonna try and make everyone else unhappy. Ok, here's an additional two koku's worth of compassionate toughness, just for you:

The main page of the forum is definitely the "Org proper." For that matter, anywhere outside of the Backroom is. The most recent post in the Watchtower can be seen on the main page (which I'm sure you know, as you're a lot smarter than your behavior here suggests). This dubious thread has been visible for some time now on the main page, and out of sheer boredom I made the mistake of looking at it. After reading enough to get the gist of what was going on, I posted my comment--not to annoy you, but to get the attention of staff so that maybe something would be done to settle this or move it out of site from those of us who want absolutely nothing to do with the Backroom.

No, the correct place for your complaint would have been in PMs to the staff involved. People who make public threads like this--filled with complaints focused on their warning and how "unfair" it was--have one intention in my book: drawing attention to themselves in hopes of garnering support from their buddies and like-minders. In my opinion, patrons have no business injecting their opinions about disciplinary matters between staff and an offending patron. And please, don't tell me that you're just trying to affect Org policy for the better in regard to fairness, because that's a load of bull-honky made very clear once this thread is reviewed. Even the title of the thread indicates that your gripe is about a specific judgment that went against you, and not about policy. You're just using policy and previous questionable behavior as leverage to try and overturn your warning. Never gonna happen. The bottom line is, staff is judge and jury. I think they are overly magnanimous in putting up with threads like these in the Watchtower.

If you really want to change policy, consider the example from Saving Private Ryan, where the grunts are complaining about their mission, about it being "fubar." The Catholic sniper presents his case from a seemingly selfless angle, focusing on benefit and not his crappy situation, and the captain says something to the effect of, "listen up, this is how you gripe." Anyone with a gripe over a disciplinary action posting publicly in the Watchtower would do well to take this kind of approach if they want to be taken seriously.

How about accepting responsibility for poor judgment and lack of self-control, accepting the consequences of your actions, and moving on. As it is you're making a fool out of and alienating yourself. Trust me, I know all about that, and it's not a stigma you want here as it can take a very long time to earn back the respect of patrons and staff once you've made an arse out of yourself.

***

Staff: Since getting rid of the Backroom won't be a popular idea, is there any way to seclude the Backroom Watchtower with permissions like the Backroom, so that patrons who don't want to participate and don't want to see any of this can enjoy the rest of the board in relative peace?

[Vuk]

My, my. Mr. Pissed Off is gonna snarl at anyone and everyone who annoys him or doesn't take his side, hmm? You are unhappy, so you're gonna try and make everyone else unhappy. Ok, here's an additional two koku's worth of compassionate toughness, just for you:

The main page of the forum is definitely the "Org proper." For that matter, anywhere outside of the Backroom is. The most recent post in the Watchtower can be seen on the main page (which I'm sure you know, as you're a lot smarter than your behavior here suggests). This dubious thread has been visible for some time now on the main page, and out of sheer boredom I made the mistake of looking at it. After reading enough to get the gist of what was going on, I posted my comment--not to annoy you, but to get the attention of staff so that maybe something would be done to settle this or move it out of site from those of us who want absolutely nothing to do with the Backroom.

No, the correct place for your complaint would have been in PMs to the staff involved. People who make public threads like this--filled with complaints focused on their warning and how "unfair" it was--have one intention in my book: drawing attention to themselves in hopes of garnering support from their buddies and like-minders. In my opinion, patrons have no business injecting their opinions about disciplinary matters between staff and an offending patron. And please, don't tell me that you're just trying to affect Org policy for the better in regard to fairness, because that's a load of bull-honky made very clear once this thread is reviewed. Even the title of the thread indicates that your gripe is about a specific judgment that went against you, and not about policy. You're just using policy and previous questionable behavior as leverage to try and overturn your warning. Never gonna happen. The bottom line is, staff is judge and jury. I think they are overly magnanimous in putting up with threads like these in the Watchtower.

If you really want to change policy, consider the example from Saving Private Ryan, where the grunts are complaining about their mission, about it being "fubar." The Catholic sniper presents his case from a seemingly selfless angle, focusing on benefit and not his crappy situation, and the captain says something to the effect of, "listen up, this is how you gripe." Anyone with a gripe over a disciplinary action posting publicly in the Watchtower would do well to take this kind of approach if they want to be taken seriously.

How about accepting responsibility for poor judgment and lack of self-control, accepting the consequences of your actions, and moving on. As it is you're making a fool out of and alienating yourself. Trust me, I know all about that, and it's not a stigma you want here as it can take a very long time to earn back the respect of patrons and staff once you've made an arse out of yourself.

***

Staff: Since getting rid of the Backroom won't be a popular idea, is there any way to seclude the Backroom Watchtower with permissions like the Backroom, so that patrons who don't want to participate and don't want to see any of this can enjoy the rest of the board in relative peace?

A: My complaint is public because my emails went unanswered, and I was not able to send PMs, as well as to draw attention to the unfair standards enforced by the Backroom moderators. I really do not see you problem (or the reason that you are in a thread you detest so)

B: If you do not want to participate in or see the content of Backroom Watchtower threads (listen up, this is really complicated) DON'T CLICK ON THEM!
I for one do not enjoy drunken revelry, but instead of complaining about bars being visible to the public, I simply do not enter the bars. As long as the revelry does not spill out onto the street, why do I care if the building is visible? It is not my concern.
Again, if you do not like Backroom threads, DO NOT ENTER THEM! It is as simple as can be.

[PanzerJaeger]

@ the innocence abused. Something must be done to keep such disturbing posts away from our more fragile members!

This thread is incredibly, terribly, horribly.... tame. We all know Vuk isn't going to have his warning reversed, and this thread is headed for an unceremonious lock. The only person I know of to ever achieve any level of success with a Backroom Watchtower(..or was it still just the Watchtower?) post was Prole. Its all about the transparency of the staff's decisions, and quite frankly a little bit of cathartic venting. Enjoy the high drama, as he will probably be embarrassed about it later. I know I'm not particularly proud of the time's I've jumped in here to whine about a warning. Sometimes I can't comprehend some of the delicate sensibilities prevalent here. How do you guys survive the internet?

[Togakure]

Hmmm, ok. I return to this thread because I've now invested in it. Snide responses directed at me will receive a rebuttal from me until the tone turns civil, or until (hopefully) staff shuts this down. This thread serves no useful purpose that I can see. If you and others are going to be permitted to relieve themselves in it, well, my bladder's full at the moment too. If the stink reaches an intolerable level, it will likely be closed. This serves my purpose (though not yours ...).

" ... (listen up this is really complicated) ..."

You crave respect, want to be heard and vindicated, yet snipe in juvenile fashion like this--on top of all the preceding ballyhoo. I don't need advice from you, Vuk. I explained how I ended up in this thread. I'd like to see Backroom diatribe and anything related to it kept out of sight--completely. Your tirade has spilled out onto the main page of the forum. I had no way of knowing what your thread--link visible from the main page--was about until I entered, and once I did and saw what was there, I posted my two-line comment because I really didn't want to see that. You didn't have to respond to it as it wasn't directed at you, yet in your current state you chose to spit venom in my direction. I don't take kindly to that.

It seems to me that your self-control needs some work if you have to respond in acidic fashion to every comment that isn't in your best interest. It also appears that your judgment is impaired if you think it's in your best interest to support such ludicrous "advice" with a fallacious anecdote. I can see why you would have a tough time in the Backroom, and can only conclude that your suspension is an appropriate consequence.

Prove me wrong: let this go, and take your issues private, with patience.

[Vuk]

Hmmm, ok. I return to this thread because I've now invested in it. Snide responses directed at me will receive a rebuttal from me until the tone turns civil, or until (hopefully) staff shuts this down. This thread serves no useful purpose that I can see. If you and others are going to be permitted to relieve themselves in it, well, my bladder's full at the moment too. If the stink reaches an intolerable level, it will likely be closed. This serves my purpose (though not yours ...).



You crave respect, want to be heard and vindicated, yet snipe in juvenile fashion like this--on top of all the preceding ballyhoo. I don't need advice from you, Vuk. I explained how I ended up in this thread. I'd like to see Backroom diatribe and anything related to it kept out of sight--completely. Your tirade has spilled out onto the main page of the forum. I had no way of knowing what your thread--link visible from the main page--was about until I entered, and once I did and saw what was there, I posted my two-line comment because I really didn't want to see that. You didn't have to respond to it as it wasn't directed at you, yet in your current state you chose to spit venom in my direction. I don't take kindly to that.

It seems to me that your self-control needs some work if you have to respond in acidic fashion to every comment that isn't in your best interest. It also appears that your judgment is impaired if you think it's in your best interest to support such ludicrous "advice" with a fallacious anecdote. I can see why you would have a tough time in the Backroom, and can only conclude that your suspension is an appropriate consequence.

Prove me wrong: let this go, and take your issues private, with patience.

Masamune, get a life. If you saw that the thread was from the Backroom watchtower you could have clicked back and not read the first sentence. I made this thread to try to get something done about an extremely unfair warning (not that the idea of getting a warning hurts me that much, but because it is an immoral abuse of power and stifles fair discussion). The only thing you are doing is distracting from my grievance and trying to get my legitamite thread locked by flame baiting. You do not like threads like this, so please do everyone a favor and get out.

[Andres]

Please guys, are these personal attacks and aggressive posts really necessary?

[Togakure]

Please guys, are these personal attacks and aggressive posts really necessary?

The entire thread is unnecessary, Andres. I'm not proud of my current behavior, but I'm not so noble as some to walk away when being harangued. Why isn't this closed? Can the Back Room Watch Tower be made so it's not visible to those of us who don't have a need to--and don't want to--see it? That'd guarantee that I--for one--would never be in here again. One less hothead to worry about etc.

If Vuk stops engaging me, or offers something conciliatory, I'll remain silent.

[Vuk]

If Vuk stops engaging me, or offers something conciliatory, I'll remain silent.

I would just like to say that despite what he would lead you to believe, we are NOT engaged! (and I can safely promise you that we never will be )

[Monk]

The entire thread is unnecessary, Andres. I'm not proud of my current behavior, but I'm not so noble as some to walk away when being harangued. Why isn't this closed? Can the Back Room Watch Tower be made so it's not visible to those of us who don't have a need to--and don't want to--see it? That'd guarantee that I--for one--would never be in here again. One less hothead to worry about etc.

If Vuk stops engaging me, or offers something conciliatory, I'll remain silent.

That's not the way it works on the internet. You either walk away or you feed the fire, becoming just as guilty as those baiting you.

[Togakure]

Masamune, get a life. If you saw that the thread was from the Backroom watchtower you could have clicked back and not read the first sentence. I made this thread to try to get something done about an extremely unfair warning (not that the idea of getting a warning hurts me that much, but because it is an immoral abuse of power and stifles fair discussion). The only thing you are doing is distracting from my grievance and trying to get my legitamite thread locked by flame baiting. You do not like threads like this, so please do everyone a favor and get out.

Flame baiting in my previous posts? Where? I edited the crap out of them, trying to keep them relatively civil under the circumstances.

Everyone a favor? You flatter me. There are many patrons who feel as I do about the Backroom this kind of nonsense. I'm involved by choice now, and I think I'll stick around despite your kind invitation, thank you. Besides, I figured you the type to enjoy a good row. Certainly you are not afraid of what innocent, fragile lil me might say, are ya? Get a life? You might wanna consider your own advice .

(not that the idea of getting a warning hurts me that much, but because it is an immoral abuse of power and stifles fair discussion)

Feeling the need to convince yourself of noble purpose while writing your response to me ? If such was your purpose you would be focused on it and wouldn't have taken my two-liner personally, nor would you continue to engage me. But you just can't resist having the last word (we share that unfortunate proclivity). Ok ... en garde .

Ok, ok ... now I've been baiting you. Kinda fun, it's been a while. But you started it with me ....

Yeah, I could have clicked back. I chose not to because this is the second time recently that this kind of thing has gone on, and it's getting on my nerves. I'm a patron too, been here quite a bit longer than you. Us (hardly) innocent, (hardly) fragile (oxymoron!) patrons have a right to voice our opinions too. This thread is a perfect example of the problem, so no need to create another thread to complain about it.