celtic combat

[SwissBarbar]

i can explain it. The crash towards the enemy's line so hard, that on both sides some make salto's ^^but not on purpose *G* Did those guys also explain what these warriors did after the cut the throats of the enemy and how they managed not to get stabbed while making the stuntman?

I just imagine them looping into a greek phalanx formation. Spears up mates

[Aurgelmir]

yeah i know.....
But pls check youtube...they did this (move) not accidentally.
they jumped on with there back on the top of the enemy shield,so he loops himself behind the enemy,stabs him and eventually beheading him.

I always thought they just clashed with each other and then starting swinging there weapons,using brute force with some basic hack/slash skills.

Dam...how do i put links here?

I checked it again...its called the salmon leap...you tube/celtic warriors A Comprehensive Journey - Part 1...so my question is... did they use such moves

[Tyrfingr]

Yeah, definitly noob...

[Aurgelmir]

Yeah, definitly noob...

And what has this to do with the topic??

[Hodgson]

I;'m probably not the best person to post on this, as I'm not an expert and my books are too far away (they're actually less than 30m away but I'm just lazy) but here goes.

The salmon leap is referenced in some of the Irish myths as being one of a number (12?) of tasks and feats that all true Irish warriors must be capable of performing. A lot of them seem to be more displays of strength, coordination, agility, endurance and courage than actually being useful combat techniques. Whether or not the "Salmon Leap" looks like it does in that video is anyone's guess, but my guess is no.

In addition, the actual jump used there would be utterly useless against massed ranks. Roll over man 1, right onto man 2's gladius/spear/axe/spiky-thing-on-the-top-of-his-helmet.

Finally, some of the Roman writers reference Gauls and Britons performing some pretty amazing tricks and techniques in combat. Caesar mentions that some warriors would catch pilum from the air while running at the Roman line and throwing them back. And I can't remember if it is Caesar or Tacitus but I think one of them mentions warriors leaping over the first rank of legionairres, crashing into the second and causing general mayhem 1/2 a second before the rest of the warriors start partying. Of course, they did die after performing their little jump...

Finally, I recall reading that Galatians, at least once, rolled underneath the spears of a Pergameme (?) phalanx and coming up stabbing in the front rank. The Greeks got round that one by having the front rank kneel down next time. Mind you, after rolling all that way underneath a line of sarissas, I think I'd be too dizzy to do anything except lie down and close my eyes. I can't remember where that came from so I wouldn't put too much faith in it.

If any of this is wrong, someone who knows better can correct me. If any of this is right, I think I'll have a celebratory drink :)

Hodgson

[Aurgelmir]

I;'m probably not the best person to post on this, as I'm not an expert and my books are too far away (they're actually less than 30m away but I'm just lazy) but here goes.

The salmon leap is referenced in some of the Irish myths as being one of a number (12?) of tasks and feats that all true Irish warriors must be capable of performing. A lot of them seem to be more displays of strength, coordination, agility, endurance and courage than actually being useful combat techniques. Whether or not the "Salmon Leap" looks like it does in that video is anyone's guess, but my guess is no.

In addition, the actual jump used there would be utterly useless against massed ranks. Roll over man 1, right onto man 2's gladius/spear/axe/spiky-thing-on-the-top-of-his-helmet.

Finally, some of the Roman writers reference Gauls and Britons performing some pretty amazing tricks and techniques in combat. Caesar mentions that some warriors would catch pilum from the air while running at the Roman line and throwing them back. And I can't remember if it is Caesar or Tacitus but I think one of them mentions warriors leaping over the first rank of legionairres, crashing into the second and causing general mayhem 1/2 a second before the rest of the warriors start partying. Of course, they did die after performing their little jump...

Finally, I recall reading that Galatians, at least once, rolled underneath the spears of a Pergameme (?) phalanx and coming up stabbing in the front rank. The Greeks got round that one by having the front rank kneel down next time. Mind you, after rolling all that way underneath a line of sarissas, I think I'd be too dizzy to do anything except lie down and close my eyes. I can't remember where that came from so I wouldn't put too much faith in it.

If any of this is wrong, someone who knows better can correct me. If any of this is right, I think I'll have a celebratory drink :)

Hodgson

Thx for the usefull post With this i can do something...

Much better(by far) than

{Yeah he is definitly a noob...(what a stupid ignorant being...(i hope this is better maion)} It makes me angry when i just want to learn something and people are telling just useless crap....so sorry for my personal dissorder

I was curious..don't know much about there fighting skills.

Is there a site,or books where i can find more about combat techniques of the celts

[Maion Maroneios]

That's a very good explanation and general iformation you got there, Hodgson. Here, a balloon for you:

@ Aurgelmir: I'd delete that c***sucker part if I were you.

Maion

[Aurgelmir]

Are there any books about this topic or site's where i can read about it?

What kind of basic training did the celts...not only for fighting...the same goes for hunting,fishing etca?

Where they all farmers,or did they choose who becomes a soldier or not.

I don't know much about the celts...before i get post how noob i am

[SwissBarbar]

yeah, I would like to read those sources too.

btw: there's nothing wrong about being a noob

[Hodgson]

Where to start?

Good intro level sources include:

Collis, J. (1998). The European Iron Age. Routledge: Britain

Cunliffe, B. (1997). The Ancient Celts. Penguin: Britain.

A brilliant reference is:

Green, M.J (ed). (1995). The Celtic World. Routledge: Britain.

I can't recommend that book enough. It is absolutely excellent. It's currently my bible. And it's also really useful as a doorstop and to crush large vermin with (its massive).

Failing that, the wiki page on ancient celts and gauls ain't all that bad. I know that some people hate wiki, but for a basic gist of an idea or broad info, wiki is quite good. I wouldn't use if for a paper but hey...


In terms of fighting styles and skills there isn't much. What follows is rather disjointed, and contains a large amount of theory and personal opinion:

There are not really any written sources for combat techniques until the manuals of the 14th Century such as Tallhoffer. These manuals were used by teachers to help teach students (ie, young nobles and knights in training) how to fight with weapons such as the longsword, shortsword, axe, polearms, dagger and unarmed combat. There were several schools of thought on how to fight, mainly an Italian school and a German school. Before that period, there is little information on true combat training. A group of early medieval reenactors/reconstructionists/experimental archaeologists have however used a combination of Tallhoffer and the Icelandic sagas to create an experimental model of how viking age warriors may have fought. Turns out it is a relatively effective body of techniques. videos of demonstrations of some attacks and counters can be found at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8SRaa33otU. In addition, the Hurstwick reenactment group also have experimented with Tallhoffer: http://www.hurstwic.org/history/arti..._technique.htm. Of course, neither of these deal with the Iron Age.

An Italian group have attempted to recreate an Iron Age combat style. I'm not sure how they went with it though. I've also spoken to some Iron Age reenactors. They say that one of the major elements of combat is the size of the shield. While not relatively heavy, it is cumbersome and awkward, meaning it is often easier to dodge blows than block them. This is however, based on modern people taking part in a combat sport. (please note that I'm not bagging reenactors. I myself was a viking reenactor and am now getting into iron age reenactment).

Now my opinions:
1. No warrior culture will survive long if the basic training consists of "clobber that guy as hard as you can". All warrior cultures seem to have a strong and underlying teaching and training framework to create warriors that fight in a particular style using particular techniques.
2. Celtic combat may have consisted of wide swings with long and heavy swords. Don't dismiss this as primitive fighting though. The Celts, as a culture would have realised two things: their soldiers were big and strong, and they were excellent metalsmiths, allowing them to create swords of that type, thus allowing them to fight in their manner.
3. Roman and Greek writers frequently mention not only the ferocity of celts but also their prowess and skill in battle.
4. celts were frequently used as mercenaries and auxilia. They wouldn't have been used if they weren't good.

In addition, there are also the modern Celtic martial arts of Scotland and Ireland (can't remember what they're called). While (relatively) modern, and not ancient, they are fully formed and functioning martial arts, distinct from eastern martial arts and created by the descendants of the iron age celts (or at least descendents of their culture. lets not get into genetics here)

Hope that made sense.
Hodgson

[Mediolanicus]

Aurgelmir, for an "easy" book about the Celts read "De Oude Belgen" by "Udo Janssens".
And it's in Dutch too, so possibly easier to read for you.

[Maion Maroneios]

Just saw the video and this is quoted from the description given by the creators of the video themselves: "Since youve always wanted to learn about Celtic Warriors, you may as well learn with the best of the worst. Also our Salmon Leap is accurate because we say so."

Notice the underlined part. As for the historical accuracy, let's say I believe you should know better than believe a clearly amateur video made (most probably) for fun. Just use common logic: Would you try a "salmon leap" against an enemy in the first row, thus turning your back to who-knows how many other soldiers in the hind lines?

Maion

[Aurgelmir]

Just saw the video and this is quoted from the description given by the creators of the video themselves: "Since youve always wanted to learn about Celtic Warriors, you may as well learn with the best of the worst. Also our Salmon Leap is accurate because we say so."

Notice the underlined part. As for the historical accuracy, let's say I believe you should know better than believe a clearly amateur video made (most probably) for fun. Just use common logic: Would you try a "salmon leap" against an enemy in the first row, thus turning your back to who-knows how many other soldiers in the hind lines?

Maion

lol i did not hear what they say,because i have no sound here...
And yes its a amateur video...but that doesn't mean that they are not correct....thats why i'm asking here lol to get the info

And yes its not the best move to make against a battle line..

So to answer your question...no i would not....(i would rather take out my remington out of my trunk lol)

[bobbin]

That move might have been useful in one on one combat, but in a large battle the guy is just going to get stabbed by someone in the next rank of enemy soldiers, seems to be reffering to something talked about in the irish mythologies so i'm not sure how historical it would have been, I certainly doubt it would have been common sight on a celtic battlefeild.

edit heres the video if anyone wants a look/laugh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEnbbAvfvVQ
Check out the sexy celtic pants!