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[CrowleyHammer]

That sounds quite difficult Durango, not sure i'm up that sort of challenge just yer personally.

Playing one of my first ever games as the Vikings, this being my first ever games im learning as much as i can in this play thru.

I managed to take Ireland permanately destroying the irish and the scots in the process, the welsh kicked me out of wales, and i had a reblellion in the northern home province, this has crippled me for the moment, its good fun raiding however i would do things a lot differently in another campaign.

My battlefield skills definately need work, I cant seem to deal with Archers very well. also after a complete failure of a spanish game i can safely say i cant deal with spanish jinnettes(sp?) either.

[Durango]

That sounds quite difficult Durango, not sure i'm up that sort of challenge just yer personally.

Indeed it is, CrowleyHammer, and very rewarding. Welcome to the forums

My battlefield skills definately need work, I cant seem to deal with Archers very well. also after a complete failure of a spanish game i can safely say i cant deal with spanish jinnettes(sp?) either.

What about archers do you find problematic? Here are some pointers I can think of:

1. Standard Archers work well against unarmoured targets, but do very poorly against heavier troops. You need Crossbows and Arbalests the most, usually.

2. Archers can fire over the heads of friendly troops in front of them, so take advantage of screening troops such as spears.

3. To maximize the accuracy of missile troops, try putting them in shallow ranks of 1 or 2 to allow as many men as possible a clear view of the target without making the formation too cumbersome.

4. Archers are naturally vulnerable to cavalry, so use light and fast cavalry to run them down.

5. Generally, if you are playing vanilla MTW, the Longbowmen are some of the best archers, and the Arbalest/Pavise Arbalest are the most used of the later missile troops. Arbalests and Halberdiers are a good combo that works well against many different opponents.

6. The skirmish function is best left turned off for missile troops, and instead they should be on hold position, with fire at will turned off. This way you can direct their fire, which is useful for letting several of your missile troops concentrate their attacks to quickly reduce an enemy unit that is vulnerable.

An example would be to have 3-4 full units of Arbalests shoot at 1 unit of Chivalric Foot Knights to quickly wear them down. Skirmish might be useful sometimes though, such as when using archers as bait by letting them run away from the enemy while heavier troops pound them from the side as they pursue.

7. Always strive to get the high ground with missile troops, since they get increased range.

[CrowleyHammer]

Cheers for the Hints mate, ive put some of the suggestions into practice aready, I started an English game up on early\normal vanilla, bribed scotland and wales into joining me (saves me many men as all the times ive tried to take wales i always seem to come a cropper to their Longbows.

Now i needed a way to reinforce my men on the continent, so i sent an army into flanders scaring the french out, i spent the next few years consolidating my position, the French decided to invade Normandy, this was my second chance at killing the king after an earlier scuffle in flanders had left the king desperately running away with only 5 of his bodyguards remaining.

I sent one of my lesser Generals in to attack as i needed my king in flanders to make sure it was safe from any french attacks, This battle unfortunately took place on a bridge, i made use of my longbows range as much as possible with 3 units on the filed pummeling the french kings unit eventually killing it, after a few more volleys to whittle down the french archers i sent my peasants across the bridge to soack up the punnishment, to my shock they actually managed to get the fench to flee!!

Now i am consolodating my gains and trying to secure a ceasefire, hopefully they wont accept as i will then be forced to use stronger methods to force the new french kings hand.

[PershsNhpios]

I am very Glad to see you here, Crowley!

Certainly, until you have learned more, do not attempt the Medmod - it will frustrate you!

It may not be as delectable for you either, as the unit roster is more similar to Shogun - in that each culture has a set unit for swords, spears, ranged units and light or heavy cavalry.

(I will recommend to you the XL Mod of course, with Tyberius 2.0 patch - but you can discover these later.)

That is the first time I have seen anyone call a bridge battle unfortunate!
Eventually you must perfect a method that will see your bridge defence impossible to the enemy, this can be done with two feudal sergeant units, two archers, some cavalry and a catapult or two.
Generally, the idea is to use a valoursome, strong infantry to hold the enemy right at your end of the bridge, and thereafter give the massive throng of charging enemy units such a storm of arrows, bolts, javelins and bolders that he simply flees.
And then the cavalry gives chase.

Of course, it has not been so easy in MedMod.. the bridge battle..

As any faction, Crowley, you must be careful when using your king away from the homeland - if the french sever your naval link and you have no troops at home - Wales or Scotland could very easily rebel.

I once invaded Corsica with my King as the French, and after the Genoese fleet destroyed mine, I found that although the island was perfectly loyal to my King, what was once France was now a big grey and pink blob on the map.
I became the King of New Corsica.

----

Durango!

I don't dare press end turn in my campaign currently, until I update my AAR thread.
I believe I am about to lose a very nasty war.
But I have a question regarding cultural unit rosters;

The French have the best heavy cavalry; The English the archers; The Italians their Spearmen/Pavisers;
What are the best assets of the others?

Truly, does Portucale have one good unit in Early, a triumphant card?
Bellatores are very good, Navarrese bowmen also.

Yet the Italian archers defeated my men-at-arms! Let alone their spears! Ahhhh!

And what can I expect from a Byzantine war - when I have three armies and they have about twelve balanced?
Can I expect the same horrible disadvantages that I witnessed in Tuscany?

On a better note; I found the Portuguese units wonderful to begin with, for the Almoravid units simply crumbled before the Bellatore.. But elsewhere I am out of my depth..

[caravel]

Get yourself off to Honshu, then you'll understand the meaning of "out of my depth". I'm fighting some very difficult battles at present. It's humble pie all round.

-Edit: Strangely Portugal have always been a rather difficult faction in pretty much any mod.

[Durango]

Eventually you must perfect a method that will see your bridge defence impossible to the enemy, this can be done with two feudal sergeant units, two archers, some cavalry and a catapult or two.
Generally, the idea is to use a valoursome, strong infantry to hold the enemy right at your end of the bridge, and thereafter give the massive throng of charging enemy units such a storm of arrows, bolts, javelins and bolders that he simply flees.
And then the cavalry gives chase.

I agree, but personally I'd bring a lot more archers with me and replace the catapult with a unit of arquebusiers if possible (or another unit of archers even). Not only would say 6 units or archers be much more effective than 2, but they operate better with the assistance of a unit of gunpowder infantry. It works like this:



The gunpowder infantry makes some of the attacking units to hesitate and sometimes rout back and forth, giving your large archer force time to slaughter the enemy units out on the middle of the bridge without hitting the enemy general with a catapult sniper shot that makes their entire army run away.

This way, they get annihilated instead, and it has helped greatly in a couplle of late era MedMod campaigns of mine. If you play early however, this is seldom an option. But anyhow, a great archer force is always present in any bridge defence of mine.

Durango!

I don't dare press end turn in my campaign currently, until I update my AAR thread.
I believe I am about to lose a very nasty war.
But I have a question regarding cultural unit rosters;

The French have the best heavy cavalry; The English the archers; The Italians their Spearmen/Pavisers;
What are the best assets of the others?

As far as my experience tells, that's a difficult question to answer without examining the stats of the units properly. But I would say that it's a nice and challenging feeling having to experience the enemy units firsthand. I found out about the quality of English Archers when they almost defeated my Celtic spears 1 on 1 in melee

Truly, does Portucale have one good unit in Early, a triumphant card?
Bellatores are very good, Navarrese bowmen also.

Yet the Italian archers defeated my men-at-arms! Let alone their spears! Ahhhh!

Sorry, I haven't played as the Portuguese, so I can't offer any hints. I recommend looking at their unit roster in the factions readme in the "Charts and Readmes" folder.

And what can I expect from a Byzantine war - when I have three armies and they have about twelve balanced?

God help you.

Strangely Portugal have always been a rather difficult faction in pretty much any mod.

True, but they are a good faction to pick if you are a Mongolophobe

[CrowleyHammer]

Cheers again for the tips!, not sure whether what i said was clear, i was attacking the bridge not defending it, however all is well, the pope got involved and the war was forced to end, not before france made some desperate attempts at grabbing Normandy, Flanders and Anjou, i was sieged in both Anjou and Normandy but took a massive beating in Flanders, to be fair all i had was a group of peasants anf some frydmen.

I managed to lift the siege of both all three provinces and on also took ill de france without incident, that was very pleasing to say the least, the fench will be destroyed soon i think seeing as the Argonese have decided to get involved with them as well as Germany.



My Borders need protecting, but im allies with everyone around me for now so im not *too* worried at the moment about being attacked (wont stop me reinforcorcing my borders as quickly as possible tho).

Thanks Glenn for the tip about the king being cut off from England, i will bear that in mind as i almost did come a cropper to what you described!

[PershsNhpios]

You are doing very well, Crowley!

Have you decided where you should next look for enemies?
Will the Germans or Aragonese become more ambitious when France is eliminated?

By the appearance of your coffers I would suggest you recruit either a new army or a strong navy from the homeland.
Your British kingdom will never succeed without a good naval force, and you must start the training of this very early.
I believe you are a competent strategist, but for the purpose of this thread topic I will relate what I would do in your position;

One of the two allies you have, Aragon or the Romans, must become your enemy - and if you are unlucky - both shall.
If I wished to fight Aragon, and begin a conquest of Iberia, (Be nice to Portugal), I would be creating as much shipping as possible before the end of the war with France.
Then you must have a third army levied and placed in Flanders, a perfect place to oversee the German movements, your first and second armies must hold Aquitania and Tolosa.
By this time you should be occupying the coasts of Northern Iberia with strong fleets, and levying a fourth army, which may put you in deficit.
Nonetheless, ensure they are prepared for combat and take Navarre from whichever Iberian Faction, and move the army from Aquitania into Aragon.

At that stage, you can ask yourself; shall I continue past these mountainous fortifications?

For then you will hold the plug on whichever Iberian faction plotting to move north, and you can focus on the East.

----

I have tried a new mod!

Having witnessed despair and dread in my Portuguese campaign, and being afraid to press, "End Year", I downloaded Hellenic: Total War!
I read of a few faults which I was prepared to ignore.. I found them, but I shall persevere!

I am working on a translation of Kurou Anabaseos currently, so it is very fitting!

I tried to play a campaign as the Argoi, in the Pro-Classical era, before Persia came to power.
Lakedaimon and her allies to the south declared war very quickly, but not before I made safe the Twelve Islands and Mitulene, and supported Samothraki with a navy.

I begged the Koinon Achaian for alliance, which they accepted, and a tight bond between Korinthos kai Athenai te kai Argos formed.
The three good states, fighting righteously against evil Thebai kai Lakedaimon te kai Ambrakia.

But it was not to last!

Not even ten years did the state of Argos last!

For the Basileus had set the difficulty to hard, which is rather silly in pushy phalagks warfare!

The first wave of Spartans and Neodamoi attacked Argos, and were with great difficulty defeated.
Then many mercenaries and new 'Oplitai were ordered for in the state, whilst Elis and Plataia sent hundreds of men to their deaths in Messenia, and much naval strife occurred around Pulos.

Eventually, ten years after the start date, 1700 men of Argos and 2100 men of Korinthos marched against 1900 men of Lakedaimon.

The scene was set in Messenia.

(Perfect I thought! Nearly 6000 men were about to meet, I was having so much fun! Sparta was going to lose!)

But ... Hooo Bacchos! Hoooo! Harees!

Here were the gathered allies, and there were the Lakedaimonioi - 500 feet up on an impossible plateau!

Yes, they had predicted well, the Fates, that some maps gave the horrid advantage of a barely-scalable cliff-face to the defender.

No matter, there were several ways up, and we had cavalry!
So off we go to flank the enemy, but of a sudden; the allies of Korinthos decide to scale the most vertical face available to them - and what is more; here come the Spartans scaling down the face to meet them!

If they don't plunge to their deaths, I believe they shall win!

So the 500 cavalry from Ludia are sent off into the north to find a way up, whilst the Argan King leads the 'Oplitai to assist his hapless, 'aplos allies!
Indeed, they scale up just beyond the Spartans and grab at their flank - but the phalagks can not form on a cliff-face - so the melee becomes very scattered.
And for this reason, the AI Bonus on Hard became unbearable.

The ally, under the weight, (Literally), of so many troops decides to flee, and Argos alone is left to fight on.
Everyone is tiring and preparing to rout; when the cavalry, having circumvented over the plateau, charge down the cliff-face and into the backs of the Spartans!

Ha ha ha, not so impossible after all!

And indeed, it should not have been - were this Normal.

But it was not Normal.

The Spartans kept on, aided by their stat bonuses, who frequently gave them everything they required for battle as they fought on two fronts.


And hereafter the battle was kept up for an hour, the Achaiai coming back with reinforcements and attacking the backs of the enemy.. but it was futile.
At the end of this battle, no single Argos remained alive, all Achaiai were fled, and 100 Lakonioi stood their ground.

---

I am not disappointed. I lost. It seemed unfair, but I liked it!

In fact, the situation turned out completely realistically, unfortunately!
Just as in those times, these ambitious Hellenic states warred with each other and in each battle completely destroyed the manpower of all countries, "Both sides claiming the victory, yet neither reaping any benefit"*.

On Normal however, it may be more beneficial.. I must see!

I will be updating the Portuguese campaign shortly enough.

*Xenophon, Hellenica.

[Turbosatan]

Slightly off-topic, but I do love it around here. It's got to be the most well-read computer games forum on t'internet. I have never read an AAR for any computer game that had a quote from Xenophon.

Thanks Glenn.

[CrowleyHammer]

Well Glenn mate i *was* doing well lol, not so sure now.

Please bare in mind this is really my first ever proper go at a campaign.

My problem is i play a lot (too much really) Crusader Kings and this i feel is definately impacting on how i play MTW, for instance in Crusader Kings Excommunication is something to be avoided at all costs, consequently im terrified to start wars in this game lol, another thing is in CK you have to be patient...very patient and i feel this is another thing holding me back as i dont think ive yet learnt when to press onwards. im happy just sitting back building my economy and not really challenging the status quo at all, i guess im still adjusting to the way this game is meant to be played, enough of this on with the game session!

Ok i left Frances king cowering in brittany, he was completely cut off from the rest of his country and had no way to get to any other provinces, i sent assasins in to finnsih the job and succeded but only after his heir came of age!!! this was a mistake that would bite me hard later on.

Now forced into a peace with them i turned my attention to building my empire andbrining my various armies up to scratch and reinforcing all provinces, also beginning to build a fleet of ships, this takes a while with not much happening to be honest HRE mullered the remaining french provinces and then were excommed, i nabbed some rebel french lands and began raking in some serious cash.

Some years later it very much starts going a bit wrong, The aragonese pitch up and want aquataine i defend my land fairly easily, but the french reckon they can have Normandy back, i put them strait quickly forcing the king back to brittany, by this point im fed up of these one province wonders and invade them with everything i can spare.......dear god that was a big big mistake, i end up routing my entire army off the field sharpish with their cavalry running me down as i go..no doubt they will dine out on that for years convieniently forgetting about the many defeats i inflicted on them. Back to the Aragonese and i take toulouse off of them and press on to their homeland, i dish out an almighty defeat and come back to the map screen only to see the ope give me my two year warning and see that the siege will take 3 years.

Option 1: Carry on the siege get excommed and then make sure the pope has a convienient accident (some ally he is anyway!!!!)
Option 2: Abandon the siege and let the spanish take whats left of the argonese defend the border and try once more to wipe out France.

Not sure yet, but this war with the argonese sure did wipe out most of my Alliances.

Just one question how do you build Longbowmen? im certain i have created the buildings i need acording to the printed pull out poster tech tree that came with the game, this is with M:TW and VI vanilla early.

[caravel]

Just one question how do you build Longbowmen? im certain i have created the buildings i need acording to the printed pull out poster tech tree that came with the game, this is with M:TW and VI vanilla early.

Longbows are available from the High era (1205 onwards).

[CrowleyHammer]

oh nuts, well..thats been a complete waste of my time then lol, and that makes my loss against the French even more devastating..sigh.

[PershsNhpios]

You should remember that when you receive a papal warning, it is not so much an immediate order to stop your aggression so much as a casual notice of, "I will look the other way for two years, just make sure you are done by then!".

Simple enough! You could have taken the Pyrenees in two years!

A cornered faction with a large army simply cannot be trusted.
If you want to spare the life of an enemy, make sure you have him besieged in his last province with <300 men, and then retreat away.
Otherwise your heirs shall inherit the Hundred Years War.

Also, there is one thing which held me back for a very long time in RTW and MTW;
Being afraid to lose provinces to siege.

Surely, it is different in RTW, but in this game having a province besieged is damaging, but it sometimes is crucial to a better success.
If leaving one province unprotected whilst you send an army deep into the heart of the enemy land means that it will be besieged on the next turn, it is well worth the victory.
This may not be problematic for you, but I know that I still despise seeing someone else colour my lands!

Simply create good fortifications, garrison them weakly, and try always to have one army available to all provinces.
For example, in the event of war with the Romans, you could fend them off decisively with one army in flanders, because that province has such fine access to others.

Of course, this is only a strategy for Europe. Naval steps should be taken to ensure that the homeland is never touched.

Hmmm! I should get back to my Portuguese game!
You should try your hand at that, Crowley, the Byzantines control everything east of Venice excepting the far north, and they have also taken a great slew of land which borders on the baltic sea. (Prussia, Pomerania, Lithuania).
Worst of all, they have a navy surrounding mine, armies ready to strike anywhere, and when I recently retreated from an italian province, they took it 'from my faction' and now we are at war.

I wish I could convince the computer that I did not want the province! It is ok! I forgive the Eastern Emperor!

[caravel]

This is my current campaign. Hopefully some crusades, Mongols, Hungarians or others will soon be heading my way. But first I have to deal with the Byzantine.

[PershsNhpios]

Is that a mod of your own, Nagamasa?

Or what mod is it that gives so many provinces in the east?

You must also tell how one deals with both Egyptians and Byzantines at once, for I failed at that trial.

[caravel]

Yes, it is my own personal mod.

Visible Byzantine provinces clockwise from bottom:

Cyprus
Antalya (including Rhodes)
Nicaea
Constantinople
Thessaly (or Macedonia)*
Sinope
Trebizond



Seljuk provinces clockwise from left:

Konya**
Rum**
Armenia**
Georgia
Mosul
Aleppo
Antioch
Lesser Armenia
Edessa


*Greece is divided into Thessaly, Epirus, Athens and Morea
**Starting provinces (1087)



The trick to taking on the Egyptians and Byzantine at once is to focus on the former. In Vanilla MTW the Byzantine usually won't ally with you at first but they will not attack you for a good many years (in this campaign the Byzantine have not attacked me as yet), the Egyptians will always ally with you but will almost certainly attack as soon as they are able.

[gollum]

Nice campaign, seems you are poised to strike.

[PershsNhpios]

It is a fine map which you have made, Asai!

Please give an update of it soon!

--

Well! I think it is obvious to see how my Portuguese campaign will end!

I was completely off-guard when the AI hit me with four proper amies.
They each had four infantry, four spears, four archers, two horse archers and two heavy cavalry, usually with great trains of cavalry and spears behind.

Excepting at Aragon, where they brought also a great many Trebuchets, which were used very effectively.

Thankfully the Spanish infantry is very similar to the Byzantine in early, so I inflicted at least 6000 casualties on them overall in the war.
Unfortunately, the Cumans withered under their assault, and I am now likely to watch Europe herself fall to the Empire.

I believe this was a freak occurrence - only look at my screenshot of 1121 - the Byzantines were cut apart by the Turks, who then wore down briefly and the Greek just happened to gain the upper hand.

[Durango]

I was completely off-guard when the AI hit me with four proper amies.
They each had four infantry, four spears, four archers, two horse archers and two heavy cavalry, usually with great trains of cavalry and spears behind.

Sometimes, I even think "I couldn't have put together a better army myself!"

It's a testament to your skill that you managed to slay so many of them despite this.

[caravel]

It is a fine map which you have made, Asai!

Please give an update of it soon!

I will post up a screenshot tonight if I get time. I think it will appeal to yourself in particular Glenn, as the Byzantine are receiving a thrashing from my Saracens, Ghazis, Futuwwa, TH and AHC. I now hold the three choke points of Constantinople, Georgia and Jerusalem. I have held off from finishing off the Egyptians for now. The Byzantine Kataphraktoi Princes were hard going. One valour 5 general had to be pinned by Saracens surrounded by Ghazi and charged repeatedly by AHC. When he still wouldn't lie down I send the General's Ghulam Bodyguards unit and the Futuwwa after him in a downhill charge. Finally when down to one man, he routed off the field alone, with a stream of Ghazis hot on his tail.

I'm past 1205 now and in a strong position so the next stage is to tech up to Janissaries and build a decent navy.



-Edit: The horde will arrive soon as well...

[gollum]

Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa
Finally when down to one man, he routed off the field alone, with a stream of Ghazis hot on his tail.

Thats the only times i dislike HAs - their attack is too low and such precious prisoner targets escape them. Alans on the other hand are great for the exact same reason - no prisoners no matter what their BGs are escape them, Sultans, Khaliffas, Popes, HREmperors, Kings all are caught in their mighty net

In fact Alans are slightly overpowered as a unit and if they werent so sparsingly available id be tempted to stat them down.

However its like the Alans and the Almughavars that mercenary units should have been - exclusive, worth it, available from few provinces. In this way they would add flavor for the player without being disavdantageous for the AI.

[caravel]

We are in danger of getting into another "let's redesign the game" thread here. Yes the game has a lot of flaws and many of these are in the east of the map: Tons of rebels, imbalanced factions, many units assigned to the wrong factions etc, but the end of the day unless you mod the game there's no option except to live with it.

Back to the topic at hand though. I will start recruting some Steppe Cavalry for chasing down routers once I've finished with the Horde.

[gollum]

Sorry Asai Nagamasa and Glenn,
old habbits die hard - after all who told you to shut off the PocketMod threads? At least i could post there all that stuff...

[caravel]

The latest:

[gollum]

It looks good.

Perhaps tech up to JHI to give a hand with the Mongols if the Byzs have left a master spear maker in Const.?

[caravel]

The Byzantine have left me with a "spearmaker"... and the best unit I can train in Constantinople is TH...



-Edit: But that won't stop me....

[oz_wwjd]

I'm glad to see that you dealt with that Kataphraktoi Prince, I hate fighting those dudes. I had to deal with a 9-valour Byzantine King once and the damn thing just wouldn't die,he seemed to be able to crush everything in his path..

[gollum]

Originally posted by Caravel Asai
The Byzantine have left me with a "spearmaker"... and the best unit I can train in Constantinople is TH...

-Edit: But that won't stop me....

I see... well, at least got the Citadel ... now time to fight the Mongols; SI, S, AHC, Cs, TH and DAs, TF with a few GBGs to top it off... and off you go to party with the Khan...

[caravel]

I was surprised to hold onto the Citadel, I did expect it to undergo the usual scenario where one of my men rests against a stout beam after a hard won victory only for the whole citadel to collapse and somehow accidentally rebuilt itself as a castle.

Update:

The Mongols arrive in Armenia and Khazar:


I decided to fight them in Armenia and pulled the entire Georgia garrison of over 6000 men back to Armenia.


The Saracens and AHC held out very well, with the Futtuwa and Turcoman Foot hammering the enemy relentlessly, then being withdrawn and replaced when their quivers were emptied.

Now I have the garrison back in Georgia with the border sealed to await the next onslaught. English and German Crusades are also sitting in Thessaly.

-Edit: And as you can see, the money came in useful as well.

[gollum]

Nice

EDIT
Usually the Constantinople Citadel doesnt downgrade at first hands change because it has the Barbican.