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  1. #1

    Default Thank you and question

    Good morning all. I just thought I would personally thank CEGORACH et al for this wonderful mod.
    I am still firmly emersed in the MTW1 experience, and probably will be for a long time.
    Now, I have a 'new' game to play in a period I'm rather interested in! Pike and Musket is fascinating.
    I have to completely 'relearn' all my tactics I used in MTW, as I've already had a piece of my anatomy handed to me in my first PMTW campaign. Woohoo!
    A couple of questions for those in the know:
    Firstly, which faction would you recommend for someone starting out in PMTW?
    Secondly, I noticed in some screenshots the use of War Wagons(nice!). Which factions are able to produce them, and in which eras?
    Finally, can someone steer me in the direction to some info on period battlfield tactics that would be relevant to PMTW?
    Well, thats it for now. And again, thanks for an interesting mod.
    Cheers
    Alex
    Realize deeply that this present moment is all we ever have...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Hello AlexandersForlornHope,

    try one of the largest factions, say Spain, the Ottomans, the Polish, the Russians or perhaps the French. I had quite fun with the Scottish once.

    With P&M the gameplay is about holding off enemy pikes/halberds with your own and then maneuver to position to shoot them (flanks and rear) while protecting the shooters from enemy cavalry. You can also make your gunners coordinate their volleys (say make up a line of 3-4 gunner units and upon maneuvering them (or waiting for the enemy) within range then toggle the fire-at-will button from off to on to unleash a coordinated killer volley. Works well when you face massed enemy infantry. Be careful to always provide protection to your gunners from enemy cavalry, while trying to pick off isolated units with your own cavalry. Some heavy cavalry units are tough enough to take the enemy on in massive frontal charges - like the Winged Hussars and Gendarmes. Thats also spectacular. The Russians have hybrid mounted archer units that can play with hit-and-run tatcics - also interesting. The pace is somewhat slower than MTW proper - so you can pull off quite sophisticated maneuvers.

    The wagon units belong to the eastern european factions IIRC.

    Last edited by gollum; 03-26-2009 at 12:41.
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

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    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  3. #3

    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Thanks gollum. So it seems a lot of the finesse in PMTW comes down to proper use of gunners, I assume. To properly protect them then I suppose is the reason for the pikes, otherwise the cavalry would 'chew them'...hmmm.
    Cavalry or infantry such as halberdiers then to protect the gunners? Can the pikers be ignored then in favor of halberdiers, which in MTW had a good 'chop' against cavalry?
    You also mentioned some heavy cavalry taking on the enemy in a frontal assault. Certainly this excludes pike formations no?
    Very interesting and thought provoking. I have a lot of practice ahead of me it seems. Thanks for the info.
    Cheers
    Alex
    Realize deeply that this present moment is all we ever have...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Hello AlexandersForlornHope,
    halberds in P&M are cheap militia easily/cheaply available IIRC. Pike units on the other hand act as spears+heavy infantry they can melee really well. Halberds can never substitute for pikes, but you cannot maintain (especially early) armies made of pikes only. Best to combine according to what your economy can support and your infrastructure can train. Another important difference is that pikes are immune to frontal charges from cavalry - while halberds will feel some *pain* when charged. Halberds are there to melee supported, while Pikes have generally high morale and wont go down easily. Use the halberds to complement the Pikes - that is say 2 halberd units for every pike unit or something to that effect...

    Guns in the early period are less powerful but as you progress become more and more powerful. Cavalry correspondingly starts with heavy armor (gendarmes) and slowly drops armor for speed.

    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

    Please make sure you have the latest version (v3.3)
    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  5. #5

    Default Re: Thank you and question

    I played P&M for a few months, although the invisible and faulty units really began to annoy me.

    I would suggest playing on the campaign which has the most factions on the map, (Not the Sun King's Ambiton or Religious Turmoil), for then there will be less chance of three major factions destroying everything else right from the beginning.

    I really liked the mod for it's progress in technology, but it also had a few faults - I never enjoyed holding of waves of town militia, who were actually just floating, shape-shifting blobs.

    But you have only just begun!

    I remember the fun I had in my French campaign, in which I swore to protect the meek factions and destroy the Spanish, Ottomans, and Russians.

    Please, tell us more here about your future campaigns!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Well, I jumped right in against better advice and picked a smaller faction to play, the Brandenburgers.
    I liked their location relative to rebel factions. I've decided to take the hard road, as a Protestant faction to ally only with fellow Protestants( I know I'm going to pay for this later)
    Right off the start all the larger faction jumped on the rebels, and me feeling left out of the scrum decided to invade the rebels in Saxony(although NOT the real Saxon faction).
    In my haste, I forgot to notice that our borders were secured by a river...yep river battle! Let me tell you dashing my poor soldiers lives against the enemy's pike regiment holding the bridge was sorrowful.
    Long story short the time ran out on the battle, I slunk back to Brandenburg with my tail between my legs, to lick my wounds.
    Of all people the Portugese landed a sizable army there next turn(can you believe it ). I said to myself oh no you dont those are my rebels to fight, I have a score to settle with them. I reinvaded, declared war on Portugal and this time despite another bridge battle, I routed them(ha,ha)
    The remnants of the rebel scum are holed up in their castle, and it will fall shortly...no mercy will be shown to them.
    That's about it for now.
    BTW, I've been practicing custom battles and I have to say War Wagon Infantry rock. Next campaign I will definately play a faction that have these outstanding units.
    Cheers
    Alex
    Realize deeply that this present moment is all we ever have...

  7. #7

    Default Adjusting faction aggressiveness

    Hello. I posted this question in the alchemist section. Is this possible? If so how?
    Thought I would plumb the depth of your collective knowledge.
    Thanks in advance.
    Alex
    Realize deeply that this present moment is all we ever have...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Adjusting faction aggressiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexandersForlornHope View Post
    Hello. I posted this question in the alchemist section. Is this possible? If so how?
    Thought I would plumb the depth of your collective knowledge.
    Thanks in advance.
    Alex

    Funny place to ask, but okay.

    Follow this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...85#post2195585

    The agressive/passive issue is addressed in there somewhere. Post #46 I think?
    In those simple times there was a great wonder and mystery in life. Man walked in fear and solemnity, with Heaven very close above his head, and Hell below his very feet. God's visible hand was everywhere, in the rainbow and the comet, in the thunder and the wind. The Devil too raged openly upon the earth; he skulked behind the hedge-rows in the gloaming; he laughed loudly in the night-time; he clawed the dying sinner, pounced on the unbaptized babe, and twisted the limbs of the epileptic. A foul fiend slunk ever by a man's side and whispered villainies in his ear, while above him there hovered an angel of grace . . .

    Arthur Conan Doyle

  9. #9

    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Thanks Brandy Blue, that was just what I was looking for!
    Cheers
    Alex
    Realize deeply that this present moment is all we ever have...

  10. #10
    Grand Patron's Banner Bearer Senior Member Peasant Phill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Alex, I hope you don't mind hopping on your P&M thread with some questions of my own.

    I've started today with a Spanish campaign in the age of exploration setting (early game). This is actually a restart of my abandoned first P&M game (so this will be my second try).
    I've started with a turtle/teching up strategy. I planned to go on the offensive once I get an army of good units. First I took out the Muslim rebels in Grenada and bribed the last survivers once it became clear I had to storm the citadel to get the province. I've bribed myself in possession of Morocco, Algeria and Malta and have connected them at last with my ships. Malta revolted but was easily put down without reïnforcements. Then Navarra attacked just when I finally came close to producing a decent army. BTW I repelled them easily enough, I didn't expect my rodeleros to be able to stand up against landsknecht-halbards and landsknecht-pikemen but they did admirably (My missile troops were also responsable for the victory).

    Now my questions:

    1. I haven't played much MTW in late so I have little to no experience with cannons but I didn't expect serpentines to be so weak. I had 2 serpentine crews set up so they always had a clear shot. They both had a valour of 2 and they always shot at the most bunched up group of units. They shot until they were out of ammo but only killed 12 and 14 enemies. With this experience in mind they aren't worth fielding. Am I doing something wrong with them? What cannons are worth fielding?

    2. The Province of Vallencia (?) is famous for its arbuceros but I can't research the needed technology there (arqebus -> caracol -> tertio). Is this a bug or are there some rules I'm not aware of?
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  11. #11
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thank you and question

    Quote Originally Posted by Peasant Phill View Post

    Now my questions:

    1. I haven't played much MTW in late so I have little to no experience with cannons but I didn't expect serpentines to be so weak. I had 2 serpentine crews set up so they always had a clear shot. They both had a valour of 2 and they always shot at the most bunched up group of units. They shot until they were out of ammo but only killed 12 and 14 enemies. With this experience in mind they aren't worth fielding. Am I doing something wrong with them? What cannons are worth fielding?

    2. The Province of Vallencia (?) is famous for its arbuceros but I can't research the needed technology there (arqebus -> caracol -> tertio). Is this a bug or are there some rules I'm not aware of?
    Cannons are a bit odd in P&M. The only cannons worth fielding, in my view, are regimental cannons. However, they are so strong that I've actually lately taken to forbidding myself from using them as a house rule. They need a military academy and a basic forge, IIRC. The regimentals function essentially like a super-archer- they are entirely moveable, fire four shots per volley, and because their size is so small, they are capable of racking valor up like nobody's business. An entirely lethal unit.

    2. There are "hidden" requirements for the tertio line. You need at least a basic level of most of the military buildings, including a horse breeder, in order to start the military tech upgrades. I belive upgraded gunsmiths of some sort are also required.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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