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Thread: Put to death in some States in the US...

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Put to death in some States in the US...

    .... Or he would have been.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/7950303.stm

    A man jailed for murdering a woman in 1979 has had his conviction quashed at the Court of Appeal after spending 27 years in prison.


    Just thought I would highlight it, for all those people who still don't believe it is a legitimate reason to think the death penalty is absurd. There are of course many other reasons, but this one seems as good as any.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Glad to hear he got out, but that isn't going to bring the 27 years back.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    the death penalty is absurd, especially if you equate all the people put to death before DNA testing and based on eyewitness accounts only. It's also now an undisputable fact that the death penalty costs significantly more money than life in prison thanks to the process, so even the most hardcore fiscal conservatives can't argue for it.

    A lot of people will argue that it has never been proven an innocent person has been executed, except that executed persons kind of have their cases grow cold because, ya know, they are dead. I suggest An Innocent Man by Grisham, i think it may be his only non-fiction novel....turns out the culprit of the crime two men were sentenced to death for was the STAR WITNESS of the prosecution, all of which could have been cleared up through some simple testing that was available at the time. The Pontotoc County DA, who I had a run-in with myself once upon a time, will rot in hell forever and ever as he still refuses to show any remorse. Personally, I think the entire system is jacked.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    I oppose the death penalty, but would not characterize it as absurd.

    The basic component is: the state does not need to deal out death to protect society -- removal of the threat to society from circulation suffices. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of early release either...
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    hey I'd be down with the death penalty under a few conditions:

    -Scientific evidence only
    -Painful
    -You don't have the convenience of knowing when, just a general timeframe, which means the prison could take people in the middle of the night to be executed, give them a shot of saline and then say LOLZ SIKE!!! Wow, would it be awesome to know exactly when I was gonna die, a much better gift than the poor sap who got raped and murdered, yes?

    anyway, rotting away at life inprisonment is still cheaper and , imo, more of a grueling punishment than being on death row and knowing when the day is coming
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Personally I disagree with the death penalty, but I think we should have it in this country, as most people are in favour of it.
    "The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Personally I disagree with the death penalty, but I think we should have it in this country, as most people are in favour of it.
    A lot of people think paediatricians should be tortured to death as well, but that doesn't make the peasantry right.

    The fascinating thing in the above case is that whilst many murderers get out of jail after ten or so years, this gentleman has been locked up for 27. Why? Because he has protested his innocence consistently and therefore, under the rules, cannot be considered for probation, since he has not shown "remorse".

    One might think that someone who refuses a way out of prison to preserve their principles might warrant a revisiting of their case, just to check.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    A lot of people think paediatricians should be tortured to death as well, but that doesn't make the peasantry right.

    The fascinating thing in the above case is that whilst many murderers get out of jail after ten or so years, this gentleman has been locked up for 27. Why? Because he has protested his innocence consistently and therefore, under the rules, cannot be considered for probation, since he has not shown "remorse".

    One might think that someone who refuses a way out of prison to preserve their principles might warrant a revisiting of their case, just to check.
    Two excellant points, (technically I am not a peasant, I am a Yeoman).

    Now, I don't remember the answer to this (possibly because I was not alive at the time) but did people support the death penalty as much when we di have it as they do now?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Death penalty should always remain an option to be used cautiously.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    The exact reason why the death penalty should be a no.

    I can't even begin to imagine how happy this man must be right now, just imagine it. Stuck in a Prison with some of societies psychos and low life's and all for a crime you didn't commit. It's remarkable he managed to keep sane.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    This man deserves a huge check and the grovelling apologies of every single person who was wrong about him... nothing can bring back those 27 years but at least he is still alive so we can do something for him...

    A victory for life a defeat for the death penalty... hurrah!
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG View Post
    .... Or he would have been.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/7950303.stm





    Just thought I would highlight it, for all those people who still don't believe it is a legitimate reason to think the death penalty is absurd. There are of course many other reasons, but this one seems as good as any.
    A typical argument.

    It could equally be applied to internment - or indeed punishment in any sense.

    All it illustrates is that the justice system in the UK is flawed, not that the death penalty is absurd.

    I'm in favour of the death penalty - but only in cases where there is no doubt - such as a premeditated stabbing leading to a death witnessed by several people.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    A typical argument.

    It could equally be applied to internment - or indeed punishment in any sense.

    All it illustrates is that the justice system in the UK is flawed, not that the death penalty is absurd.

    I'm in favour of the death penalty - but only in cases where there is no doubt - such as a premeditated stabbing leading to a death witnessed by several people.

    my thoughts exactly.
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    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    A typical argument.

    It could equally be applied to internment - or indeed punishment in any sense.

    All it illustrates is that the justice system in the UK is flawed, not that the death penalty is absurd.

    I'm in favour of the death penalty - but only in cases where there is no doubt - such as a premeditated stabbing leading to a death witnessed by several people.


    Death is an easy way out. Let them rot in a prison cell for the rest of their lives, that's a worse punishment than death.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus View Post
    Death is an easy way out. Let them rot in a prison cell for the rest of their lives, that's a worse punishment than death.
    but is that justice?
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by hooahguy View Post
    but is that justice?
    Don't confuse vengeance with justice.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    Death penalty should always remain an option to be used cautiously.
    Agreed. For a laundry list of reasons, I prefer life sentences to the death penalty. But, the death penalty, as an option, should not be completely removed from the table.
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    I oppose the death penalty, but would not characterize it as absurd.

    The basic component is: the state does not need to deal out death to protect society -- removal of the threat to society from circulation suffices. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of early release either...

    Exactly.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Sadly, it is true that innocent people have been convicted and likely killed.

    I still think we should retain the death penalty, but very rarely, and only in cases where there is scientific and eyewitness evidence.

    But the problem here isn't the death penalty but the handling of evidence and the legal system.

    I'd also recommend the movie The Thin Blue Line, where the cops ignored the boasting ("I killed a cop!") of the real killer in order to get another man convicted.

    CR
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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Don't confuse vengeance with justice.
    i know the difference.
    but i truly do not believe that a serial murderer-who was prove beyond any doubt tha the was the one who committed them- should be allowed to live.
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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    TBH the one thing that does sway me towards the death penalty is the fact i think it may actually be more humane... for someone who is gaurenteed guilty and is not ever getting out of jail... hell i'd rather die...

    I guess i would want it to be a choice for the jailbird.... but i think that pretty much goes against most other people's reasoning for it...
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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    I would rather be executed than rot in jail. Remember, death row inmates are segregated from the rest of the prison population and are therefore not a part of the prison drama that unfolds, they lead a fairly relaxed existence compared the the general population. Yeah, they are isolated, have little social contact but I'm thinking in prison thats probably not a bad thing. It's not like they are in a dank, solitary confinement cell where they have to eat porridge 3x a day. And they know when they are going to die. And they get to go on awesome field trips for their appeals. Wowza, where do I sign up
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    It makes me sad when people think vengence and self satisfaction is the same as justice.

    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG View Post
    It makes me sad when people think vengence and self satisfaction is the same as justice.

    Out of curiosity what would be your definition ?

    I also thought I'd post this:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/18/new.mexico.death.penalty/index.html

    New Mexico governor repeals death penalty in state

    (CNN) -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson signed a bill Wednesday repealing the death penalty in his state, his office confirmed.

    "Regardless of my personal opinion about the death penalty, I do not have confidence in the criminal justice system as it currently operates to be the final arbiter when it comes to who lives and who dies for their crime," Richardson said in a statement Wednesday.

    He noted that more than 130 death row inmates have been exonerated in the past 10 years, including four in New Mexico.

    "Faced with the reality that our system for imposing the death penalty can never be perfect, my conscience compels me to replace the death penalty with a solution that keeps society safe," he said.

    With the governor's decision, New Mexico joins 14 other states that don't impose the death penalty. Several states, including Colorado, Kansas, Maryland and Montana, are considering changes to their capital punishment laws.

    The bill replaces the death penalty with life without the possibility of parole.

    "Throughout my adult life, I have been a firm believer in the death penalty as a just punishment -- in very rare instances, and only for the most heinous crimes. I still believe that," Richardson, a Democrat, said.

    "The issue became more real to me because I knew the day would come when one of two things might happen: I would either have to take action on legislation to repeal the death penalty, or more daunting, I might have to sign someone's death warrant."

    Richardson said the criminal justice system is "inherently defective" in its use of the death penalty, adding that he was bothered by the fact that minorities are "over-represented in the prison population and on death row."

    Minorities make up more than half of the death row population nationwide, according to the Washington-based Death Penalty Information Center, a nonprofit group that opposes the death penalty.

    The state legislature approved the measure last Friday. Prior to signing the legislation, Richardson received thousands of e-mails and phone calls weighing in on the matter.

    As of noon Wednesday, the governor's office said it had received 10,847 phone calls, e-mails and walk-in comments from people who wanted to voice their opinions on the legislation.

    Of those, 8,102 were for a repeal of the death penalty and 2,745 were against it, according to Richardson's office.

    In addition, Richardson met Monday with more than 100 New Mexicans to discuss the issue, his office said.

    Other states also have considered repealing their capital punishment laws this year. In Kansas, state senators voted Monday to send such a bill back to committee, The Kansas City Star reported.

    "Regardless of my personal opinion about the death penalty, I do not have confidence in the criminal justice system as it currently operates to be the final arbiter when it comes to who lives and who dies for their crime," Richardson said in a statement Wednesday.
    Those are close to my views.



  25. #25
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Now we have to suffer through the mans book deal. UGH.
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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    I'd want people to buy my book if I was wrongfully imprisoned for 27 years.

    Hell, I'd want all sorts of things.

  27. #27
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Wow 130 exonerations in 10 years. And thats just for death row inmates. For murder and rapes in general the number must be in the thousands.

    Face it, the US has executed innocent people. I'm not unlike Richards in that I think a properly applied death penalty is just, but I don't have enough faith in the system to properly apply it.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Idaho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    A lot of people think paediatricians should be tortured to death as well, but that doesn't make the peasantry right.
    You are an aristocrat BG - with an aristocrat's view on the world. Much as I think you are a decent person, you represent and reflect humanity's desire for oligarchy.

    Control the coinage and the courts -- let the rabble have the rest. If you want profits, you must rule. There is truth in those words, but I ask myself who are the rabble and who are the ruled?
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kush View Post
    Out of curiosity what would be your definition ?
    In our system, punishment is a matter between the society and the convicted, not between the victim and the convicted. It's the society who's judging him/her, we don't let the victim do that.

    The feelings of the victim(s) in a criminal case is really quite irrelevant.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  30. #30
    Senior Member Senior Member Beefy187's Avatar
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    Default Re: Put to death in some States in the US...

    I used to be strongly agaist the idea of death penalty because most of those who gets death penalty wants to die anyway. Its not a punishment if those who gets punished don't feel any remorse or regret their action.

    But I heard a few messy case recently in Japan. Heres one

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

    Very disturbing

    I also realised that we the citizens have to pay to keep those in life sentence alive and the cost are pretty high. We can count on those who are in for less then 20 years to normal citizens who obey the law. But peoples like intentional murderers are not worth keeping them alive. Some of them won't feel regret. They will use every chance to get out and kill again.

    I think death sentence should be used for every country. At least for serial killers who doesn't have mental damage.


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