Sword/Spear Leathality

[Drewski]

Could tou PLS post your EDU?

A pleasure its here :- export_descr_unit.zip

Btw, to make it work for your current game, you must overwrite the EDU in C:\....\EB\sp game edu backup. If you overwrite The EDU in EB\DATA, the game just reads from the backup, and the changes won't work.

[artavazd]

I have taken 4 off of the attack, but have not added 4 to the defence. In my opinion the units marked with "light_spear" already have a +8 defence against Cavalry (which I think is their primary job as anit-cav units) and if they go against other units marked with the "light_spear" their penalties with cancel eachother out. Only elite spearmen should out do a sword unit, because for all others if the sword unit gets in close, the advantage of the spear is taken away. In many description of sword units it states that historicaly they were the anti-spear (phalanx included) units. Therefore I did not give the units marked "light_spear" +4 defence I only took away 4 from their attack.

[Zett]

Will this change destroy the balance? I don't want a über-Roman/Celtic Empire, because they have the most sword units and would have the biggest profite from this change. And what about the factions that have only spearunits and no phalanx ability (like KH), they will have a huge disatvantage, because the engine can not represent their Hoplitephalanx. Perhaps you should give all Hoplites a +4 defence to reprersent their way of fighting and make their disatvantage smaller.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Aurgelmir]

A pleasure its here :- export_descr_unit.zip

Btw, to make it work for your current game, you must overwrite the EDU in C:\....\EB\sp game edu backup. If you overwrite The EDU in EB\DATA, the game just reads from the backup, and the changes won't work.

thx....

What exactly did you change?
Only the attack,or also the defance stat?

[Drewski]

Will this change destroy the balance? I don't want a über-Roman/Celtic Empire, because they have the most sword units and would have the biggest profite from this change. And what about the factions that have only spearunits and no phalanx ability (like KH), they will have a huge disatvantage, because the engine can not represent their Hoplitephalanx. Perhaps you should give all Hoplites a +4 defence to reprersent their way of fighting and make their disatvantage smaller.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

The Celts mostly have very low Def though, and the Romans have pretty low attacks. Greece should really be using mostly H & A tactics anyways. I've just played 10 hrs straight, and didn't see any noticable change in the "Spear Heavy" nations performance on the Campaign Map. The Celts are actually mostly spear units with a few elite swords, if you look at the units they have. I think maybe, people were finding it (falsely) easy to play Epiros, Greece and Macedon (for example)in the first place....

thx....

What exactly did you change?
Only the attack,or also the defance stat?

Just -4 to attack for all Spear and Pikes. Didn't touch defence at all.

See here for some reasoning.

And no-one has to go with the changes anyway, its purely up to the individual :)

[Aurgelmir]

The Celts mostly have very low Def though, and the Romans have pretty low attacks. Greece should really be using mostly H & A tactics anyways. I've just played 10 hrs straight, and didn't see any noticable change in the "Spear Heavy" nations performance on the Campaign Map. The Celts are actually mostly spear units with a few elite swords, if you look at the units they have. I think maybe, people were finding it (falsely) easy to play Epiros, Greece and Macedon (for example)in the first place....

Just -4 to attack for all Spear and Pikes. Didn't touch defence at all.

See here for some reasoning.

And no-one has to go with the changes anyway, its purely up to the individual :)

Thank you for clearing me up.

Finally my pontus hillmen can start slaughtering....without to much casulties

hm...but now i have to use other troops in my sweboz campaign
no more frigge spam

[Drewski]

Thank you for clearing me up.

Finally my pontus hillmen can start slaughtering....without to much casulties

hm...but now i have to use other troops in my sweboz campaign
no more frigge spam

Slightly off Topic, but just had a really nasty battle as Rome (late Polybian Era) vs Epiros. My Army was an all Roman balanced 20 unit stack. Epiros was mostly Spear Units (with my changes), only 2 Phalanx just general for Cavalry, and some Galatian Swords to flank. I absolutely couldn't get any units to rout, my Cavalry getting decimated from Charge after Charge into Epirian backs.

Then some of my Hastati start to rout, then The Principes. Some of his rout, but then gain their composure and charge back in to the midst. I'm down to the Triarii and The Elite Infantry, and finally start getting the upper hand, Then the Triarii rout. All Ive got left is 2 almost dead Cavalry Units, and 2 Half dead Elites, all looks lost.

Then suddenly 5 Makedonian allied Army units appear quite literally over the brow of the hill, and rip into The Epiros General, who is instantly dispached to meet his maker. The Epiros Army start to waver, and my Cavalry make one last desperate charge. The entire Epiros Army decide "enough is enough" and flee in panic for their homelands.

The most Pyrrhic victory I've ever had. I lost 75% of my Army, but held the mountain pass long enough for a reinforcing Army to reach the City......................good fun though :)

===================================

So no, the changes don't really imbalance spears ;)

[artavazd]

What are H & A tactics? This was mentioned in the above posts.

[Raygereio]

Hammer & Anvil, I guess?
(Pin units down with phalanx units, then charge repeatedly with heavy cavalry)

[Aurgelmir]

Slightly off Topic, but just had a really nasty battle as Rome (late Polybian Era) vs Epiros. My Army was an all Roman balanced 20 unit stack. Epiros was mostly Spear Units (with my changes), only 2 Phalanx just general for Cavalry, and some Galatian Swords to flank. I absolutely couldn't get any units to rout, my Cavalry getting decimated from Charge after Charge into Epirian backs.

Then some of my Hastati start to rout, then The Principes. Some of his rout, but then gain their composure and charge back in to the midst. I'm down to the Triarii and The Elite Infantry, and finally start getting the upper hand, Then the Triarii rout. All Ive got left is 2 almost dead Cavalry Units, and 2 Half dead Elites, all looks lost.

Then suddenly 5 Makedonian allied Army units appear quite literally over the brow of the hill, and rip into The Epiros General, who is instantly dispached to meet his maker. The Epiros Army start to waver, and my Cavalry make one last desperate charge. The entire Epiros Army decide "enough is enough" and flee in panic for their homelands.

The most Pyrrhic victory I've ever had. I lost 75% of my Army, but held the mountain pass long enough for a reinforcing Army to reach the City......................good fun though :)

===================================

So no, the changes don't really imbalance spears ;)

Do you use the formation minimod?

And who thinks it is good and why....hm i should post a new thread

[Drewski]

Do you use the formation minimod?

And who thinks it is good and why....hm i should post a new thread

Yep, I use Sinhuet's for Ai, and Marcus's when playing as Rome-even though I generally set up manually as Rome (depending upon Army composition). Sinhuet's is very good for the ai, as long as they have a pretty full stack. They are little so and so's for trying to get around the right flank. , and with a full stack, they can properly attack the middle too.

Btw I normally count a battle a loss if I lose > 20% of my troops and win..

[Twigvest]

A pleasure its here :- export_descr_unit.zip

Btw, to make it work for your current game, you must overwrite the EDU in C:\....\EB\sp game edu backup. If you overwrite The EDU in EB\DATA, the game just reads from the backup, and the changes won't work.

Link Broken, can someone re-upload this please?

[Mikhail Mengsk]

I've manually lowered light-spears attack value by 4, except for cavalries