Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 70

Thread: Ratzinger condemns condoms

  1. #1
    Urwendur Ūrībźl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Mikligaršr
    Posts
    6,899

    Thumbs down Ratzinger condemns condoms

    .
    Why the Pope opposes condoms

    The Pope said the "cruel epidemic" should be tackled through fidelity and abstinence rather than condoms, and that "the traditional teaching of the Church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids".
    The magic solution:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    .
    Last edited by Mouzafphaerre; 03-20-2009 at 10:59.
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  2. #2
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    OKRAHOMER
    Posts
    7,424

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Yes, abstinence will stop the rapists.

    And we all know that poor, desperate, hungry people never have sex, so it should work for them, too.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  3. #3
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    13,477

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    He makes a valid point. If people didn't have sex it would spread. You can't argue with that.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

  4. #4
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    He makes a valid point. If people didn't have sex it would spread. You can't argue with that.
    Exactly. If people didn't eat, there would be an abundance of food in the world.

    On a serious note, it's a Pope and he's against contraceptives - like any other self-respecting Pope...

  5. #5
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Isca
    Posts
    13,477

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Exactly. If people didn't eat, there would be an abundance of food in the world.

    On a serious note, it's a Pope and he's against contraceptives - like any other self-respecting Pope...
    You don't have to have sex. The Pope's point is that condoms allow people to abdicate responsibility for their actions.

    Now, whether or not you agree with contraception (no problem with it myself) you have to admit that he does have a point.

    People in Africa don't take responsibility for their sexual misadventures, they aren't monogomous and they don't use condoms.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

  6. #6
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    5,812

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    This isn't any different from what the Vatican has been saying for the past century. They've always held that extramarital sex is bad and the Africans don't care. If Benedict started encouraging people to use condoms, how many Africans would follow his advice?

    The Vatican's position is stupid, but mostly ineffectual.

  7. #7
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Condoms are evil. I once had a really bad experience with a condom that has left me scarred (mentally and physically) to this day. Save a horse, don't use condoms.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  8. #8
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    2,713

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    No Condoms = More AIDS = More suffering = More People turning to religion


    Simple as that.
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

    http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/

  9. #9
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Condoms are evil. I once had a really bad experience with a condom that has left me scarred (mentally and physically) to this day. Save a horse, don't use condoms.
    I once shot one in my eye. Hate these things a pain to get it on and sex is much better without them.

  10. #10
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hunting the Snark, a long way from Tipperary...
    Posts
    5,604

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Condoms are evil. I once had a really bad experience with a condom that has left me scarred (mentally and physically) to this day. Save a horse, don't use condoms.
    If there's a horse involved, you're doing it wrong.

    The Pope certainly has a point and it is a solid one. One can argue that real experience may be different, but his role is to teach the absolute in ethical principles.

    The issue, IMO, is not condom use per se, but the powerlessness of women in many African societies. Abstinence for them is simply not possible as they cannot deny the demands of men. The Church's stance fails because it has rarely championed women's sexual rights, and refuses to recognise that advocacy of condom use should be a method of empowering women, not promoting promiscuity.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  11. #11
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    2,713

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post

    The Pope certainly has a point and it is a solid one. One can argue that real experience may be different, but his role is to teach the absolute in ethical principles.
    Banquo I think you are over simplifying this. One could argue that the most absolute ethical principle of the church is to 'do good'. I believe that this 'doctrine' is ahead of any more specific moral theological views as in 'do not throw your seed on the earth'. If we take it one step forward and agree that the pope's statement did more bad than good (as in more people will contract AIDS than if said statement was not made) then the pope is in error... ...and in contradiction will the 'good' nature of the church.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Anyhows I am kind of glad that our local flavour of Christianity does not care about such things (the Greek Orthodox church, having seen that religion is not a prosperous enterprise anymore , has mostly diversified into the real estate business )
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

    http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/

  12. #12
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hunting the Snark, a long way from Tipperary...
    Posts
    5,604

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    Banquo I think you are over simplifying this. One could argue that the most absolute ethical principle of the church is to 'do good'. I believe that this 'doctrine' is ahead of any more specific moral theological views as in 'do not throw your seed on the earth'. If we take it one step forward and agree that the pope's statement did more bad than good (as in more people will contract AIDS than if said statement was not made) then the pope is in error... ...and in contradiction will the 'good' nature of the church.
    I'm not sure that you are right. Our more learned theologians may differ, but I think the absolute ethical principle of the Church would be to do the will of God. We, the laity, may well have pre-conceived ideas of what is good, but his Holiness, as vicar of Christ on Earth, is there to tell us what is "right". If we believe, then it is a matter of our conscience and faith for us to follow that absolute, or in conscience, ignore that teaching at peril of our soul.

    The Pope therefore, advocates no relativist teaching based on what might be "good" at this time or opinion, but what is "right" in his understanding of God's will. It is up to others to place their own relativist moral outlook on this ruling, if they wish to differ. Faithful Catholics may well observe the Holy Father's rulings to the letter - or mostly, be guided by such and their own consciences - which the Church also accepts may be influenced by the Holy Spirit.

    This is not to say I agree with His Holiness on the issue of condoms, much less contraception in general, but I can understand why he might make such an argument and why it is valid.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  13. #13
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    9,029

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    When has the pope ever been wrong about anything?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  14. #14
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Whats a pope?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,663

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    You don't have to have sex. .
    Sure you don't, but it's not viewed that way in some cultures. Africa's a good example as a lot of people their simply aren't educated in safe sex, therefore money should be used to educate them and inform them of safe sex, you can't just tell them not to have it.

    Also do you not know anything about today's teen/youth culture? Yes you do have to have sex. Obviously your not forced to at gun point or anything but there's huge social pressure and a lot of desire amongst young people to experiment sexually and engage in it.

    The Pope can either accept that times are changing or continue to preach his same ancient scrolls about issues which they can't simply be applied to in modern day society..
    Last edited by tibilicus; 03-20-2009 at 15:21.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  16. #16
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,407

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    If people ignore the Pope's teaching on sex, why would they suddenly accept his ruling against condoms with open arms?

    Anti-Catholics here, you need to use a bit of the logic I know that you all [usually] have on other topics. If they're not using condoms, it is because they don't want to use them anyway, not because the Pope said so. Besides, try to find a correlation between Catholic African countries and the worst AIDS rates/worst increases in AIDS rates. Good luck!

    The Vatican's position is stupid, but mostly ineffectual.
    The former is only true if you follow the one piece of advice and not the other. If you take both pieces of advice together, it makes perfect sense and is completely logical.
    Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 03-20-2009 at 15:24.

  17. #17
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,074

    Default Re : Ratzinger condemns condoms

    While I think the catholic church is stupid and the pope a reactionary idiot, I can't understand the outrage here.

    Any pope is against contraception and extramarital sex. This is not news.
    And Africa would be plagued by AIDS even without the pope, because to be honest, nobody gives a damn about him anyway.

    Even if he threatened any catholic of excommunication if they didn't use condoms, the situation would be the same.

  18. #18
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re : Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Faithful Catholics may well observe the Holy Father's rulings to the letter - or mostly, be guided by such and their own consciences - which the Church also accepts may be influenced by the Holy Spirit.
    I think that where Catholicism is a minority or opprossed religion, the Catholics take the letter of the law much more seriously. (The Irish, the Americans, the Poles)

    In Latin Europe, most Catholics take a more relaxed attitude and realise that there are a) rules, and b) real life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rasoforos
    the Greek Orthodox church, having seen that religion is not a prosperous enterprise anymore , has mostly diversified into the real estate business
    Catholicism has moved the other way. From the largest landholding, feudal intitution to a mostly moral institution.

    Which, of course, I regret. It is the ancient dilemma of the anti-clericals. One the one hand, this shift is an expressed goal of anti-clericalism. On the other, the church needs to be involved in worldly affairs, with all the neverending scandals, orgies, and abuse that stems from having two feet firmly in the mud. Or else people will start to take all that superstition, magic and transubstantation seriously.


    Quote Originally Posted by EMFM
    Besides, try to find a correlation between Catholic African countries and the worst AIDS rates/worst increases in AIDS rates. Good luck!
    That is an excellent point.
    Catholicism is only a small minority religion in Africa. Plus, the AIDS epidemic is strongest in the non-Catholic South and East of Africa.
    Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 03-20-2009 at 16:36.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  19. #19
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    3,818

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    I salute the Pope in his adherence to the basic Church principles. Expected nothing other than exactly that. Furthermore, this refusal to bow down to secular pressure is once again an indicator that the Catholic Church serves God and God alone, and there isn't a single government or social group capable of derailing the Church's commitment to the fundamentals of the Christian religion. Come to think of it, Orthodox Church is also pretty much the same way: they do not look kindly upon condom use.

    Either way, if people do not like it, there are plenty of other religions out there. Nobody is *required* to be Catholic.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  20. #20
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    I don't have particularly great enthusiasm for either side of the contraception debate, but I must say in this case the Pope is simply sticking to his principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus View Post
    The Pope can either accept that times are changing or continue to preach his same ancient scrolls about issues which they can't simply be applied to in modern day society..
    Just as surely as it was the case 2,000 years ago, abstaining from sex protects you from STD's. If people in todays society don't want to live by that, fine, it's their problem. For all the talk of religions role in society, if you are a Christian you would not believe that religion exists to be helpful or justified to society. People should stop apologising for their beliefs and say it like it is!
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  21. #21
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,336

    Default Re: Re : Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Meneldil View Post
    While I think the catholic church is stupid and the pope a reactionary idiot, I can't understand the outrage here.
    I don't recall him saying anything mean about you..... Obviously we differ in our assessments, but we'll set that aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meneldil
    Any pope is against contraception and extramarital sex. This is not news.
    And Africa would be plagued by AIDS even without the pope, because to be honest, nobody gives a damn about him anyway.
    There are those who do "give a damn," and in Africa that is a growing number. However, you are VERY much on target that the Holy Father's stance is hardly surprising or new, and the most in Africa are not making their decision (or lack of decision) on that basis.

    Again, I think folks get a little overly out of focus on this issue. It is not as though The Church is sending Franciscan Spec Ops teams to destroy condom shipments to Africa or terminate sex educators.

    The Church, and the Holy Father, are articulated a moral stance that has been part of the Churchs view of things for centuries. Posters in this thread are almost casting The Church as the instigator of things, and one post by Rasoforos didn't label them the instigators but very definitely asserted that the Church was seeking to exploit the issue so as to enhance human suffering.

    So, for those of you taking that line, is The Church a unique coterie of heartless ******** from your point of view or are all religious organizations equally wrong?

    Yes, the last question does have a "snide" component. The scorn is for such attitudes, not against any particular forum patron.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  22. #22
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    You don't have to have sex. The Pope's point is that condoms allow people to abdicate responsibility for their actions.

    Now, whether or not you agree with contraception (no problem with it myself) you have to admit that he does have a point.

    People in Africa don't take responsibility for their sexual misadventures, they aren't monogomous and they don't use condoms.
    Yeah, you won't die if you don't have sex, but that's not the point. Sex is good. Not just the pleasure you get from it, but it relieves tension, stress, helps people bond. For males, the build up of testosterone can have dangerous consequences, it can even lead to violent behavior etc...

    For myself, when I'm in a stable relationship, meaning when I have sex on a regular basis, I feel better, I have more energy and usually I'm more productive in whatever I do. God knows how many experts showed already that sex is good not only for your mental but also your physical health.

    So, I believe no one should encourage people not to have sex and tell that sex is bad. We should teach them that sex is good but there are bad things that go along with it and educate them how to avoid them.

    That's why I said what I said, meaning it's the wrong way to try to stop STD's and unwanted pregnancies and whatnot, just like trying to solve the problem of hunger in the world with telling people to eat less would be. Don't encourage them not to have sex, encourage them to have safe sex and educate them how to do it.

    If both religious and secular authorities did that, the message would be able to reach further and have impact on much more people...

  23. #23
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    2,713

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post
    I salute the Pope in his adherence to the basic Church principles. Expected nothing other than exactly that.
    Amen brother. And his holiness should finally do something about all those heretics that say the Earth is a Sphere. Also we should start burning witches again because it is a good old church tradition...


    Furthermore, this refusal to bow down to secular pressure is once again an indicator that the Catholic Church serves God and God alone
    How do we know God does not like rubbers? No really, there is no verse about rubbers in the bible. It is a bit far fetched to assume that God agrees.


    Come to think of it, Orthodox Church is also pretty much the same way: they do not look kindly upon condom use.

    They know better than that... I have yet to see an archbishop issue anti-rubber decrees.
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

    http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/

  24. #24
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    3,818

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    Amen brother. And his holiness should finally do something about all those heretics that say the Earth is a Sphere. Also we should start burning witches again because it is a good old church tradition...
    Church does not doubt the shape of the Earth. If fact, as far as Christianity is concerned, the shape of the Earth is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    How do we know God does not like rubbers? No really, there is no verse about rubbers in the bible. It is a bit far fetched to assume that God agrees.
    Genesis 38:6-10

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    They know better than that... I have yet to see an archbishop issue anti-rubber decrees.
    So, if you ask an Orthodox priest whether or not it is okay to use condoms, will you receive an affirmative answer?
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  25. #25
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    Amen brother. And his holiness should finally do something about all those heretics that say the Earth is a Sphere. Also we should start burning witches again because it is a good old church tradition...
    He was talking about principles, not traditions, there is a big difference.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  26. #26
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    2,713

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by rvg View Post

    Genesis 38:6-10

    γνοὺς δὲ Αὐνὰν ὅτι οὐκ αὐτῷ ἔσται τὸ σπέρμα, ἐγίνετο ὅταν εἰσήρχετο πρὸς τὴν γυναῖκα τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτοῦ, ἐξέχεεν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν τοῦ μὴ δοῦναι σπέρμα τῷ ἀδελφῷ αὐτοῦ.
    Ok first of all lets see the piece of story that this whole thing is based on.

    There is this guy Judah who had three sons. One of them, Er, got married to Thamar. But God did not really fancy Er so he murdered him. He then went to his brother Onan and said 'Go your brother's wife so your brother has descendants but Onan would ejaculate on the earth because the descendants wouldn't be his. So God killed him. Then the father of the two boys said to the widow 'When my young son grows up you will get married to him'. But time goes by, the third son becomes adult and still Thamar doesn't get her third husband.

    One day, after his wife died, the father goes to shear some sheep. Thamar gets covered from head to toe and goes to wait for him to pass by. When he does he thinks she is a prostitute and long story short he promises her a kid goat to have sex with her. She complies and gives birth to twins.

    <---- This?! This is supposed to teach us morality...Women passed around and promised to people and tricking old men who don't mind visiting prostitutes soon after their wife died...ya...


    There is no explicit mention to contraception or to condoms. It is however explicitly explained that:

    a)If God wants you to have sex with your late brother's wife to have children then you have to do it.

    b)Your sperm should not fall on the earth (and I have to say that condoms are a great means of making sure it does not)
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

    http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/

  27. #27
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by rasoforos View Post
    b)Your sperm should not fall on the earth (and I have to say that condoms are a great means of making sure it does not)



    There are other ways, too, but most women are reluctant to do it

    Now that someone mentioned Orthodox Church, I have to say I don't remember Serbian Patriarch or any other high-up in the church advocated not using rubbers. If you go to a priest and ask him specifically about condoms and/or other contraceptives he may say something but I don't think there was an active campaign against contraceptives ever. It seems Orthodox Church is more liberal when it comes to sex, for example, Orthodox priests are allowed to get married and have kids. Just an observation, though, I could be wrong. I'm not really into religion...

  28. #28
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    The special circumstances in Genesis 38:6-10 mean that the passage is not particularly well suited to deriving doctrine from. It is not specifically because he spilled his seed, but rather that he disobeyed God, that Onan is killed.

    There's nothing else in the Bible to suggest that contraception would not be OK to use. I suppose sex without procreation would still have a good purpose for any married couple, whether it would strengthen their relationship, improve their health or whatever. Indeed, God created Eve to Adam would not be lonely, and sex may be a valid part of their relationship, whether or not it produces children.

    On the other hand, it seems decadent to rejoice in worldy pleasures, which would be very much against the message of the New Testament. So I'm not sure.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  29. #29
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    25,559

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Whats a pope?
    A Pope is a man in a pointy hat who tells people to go on crusades, and also to stop attacking their Christian neighbors. He also looks pretty cool on the battlefield, and it is really fun to slay him.

    Other than that, he's mostly unimportant.
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  30. #30
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: Ratzinger condemns condoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    A Pope is a man in a pointy hat who tells people to go on crusades, and also to stop attacking their Christian neighbors. He also looks pretty cool on the battlefield, and it is really fun to slay him.

    Other than that, he's mostly unimportant.
    It's not difficult to pick a figure and ridicule the way they dress or how they appear in RTS games, but it's not really reflective of the reality is it?

    If you read my posts in some recent threads you'll know that I far from paint a saintly picture of the Pope or the office he holds. You've stated many times you value rational thought, and that you cannot fit religion into that framework. But does that really mean you should be so dismissive of something that many people, including no shortage of them who are quite likely a good deal smarter than ourselves, hold so dear?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO