Patch Update

[Durallan]

I'm sorry lemur but your argument doesn't stack up against beesting's and dogfish's. I preordered the special edition, was incredibly looking forward to it, and understood that they needed an extra month so they could put in the multiplayer campaign mode. This however seems to have evaporated and they are now in damage control urgently needing to fix bugs that I honestly believe don't see how they could have missed.

I joined the Total War Franchise with medieval 2 and I thought that was pretty awesome and I thought dang it, I'll go ahead and get Empire, cause that sounds too awesome to believe. I got it and at first it was awesome, I was having alot of fun, but then 20 turns down the track, the cracks started to appear. the slightly random crash in a battle after I'd fought it, the crash after winning a battle and clicking the victory button, these things could be forgiven. another 80 turns down the track these bugs didn't stop but I persevered, and now it has gotten to the point where if I click on one of my fleets the game will freeze for 2 minutes, then selecting ships in the fleet will take 2 minutes, moving it about is okay but if I end the turn I ahve to go through that mess all over again, and loading armies on ships and through docks, I just can't play the game anymore. My main most important army is now stuck on a small carribean island because each time I click on the shipyard, the game crashes to the desktop. I don't expect a perfect game, but I expect that CA had testers that at least played through a whole long campaign and would have found these bugs, because these are not simple annoying bugs where an animation isn't working properly, I can't play the game I paid money for anymore. and while I don't feel like taking the game back and getting my money back because I know they are at least going to fix this eventually, It just shouldn't have been released in this manner.

Now about people who complain about the bugs that would have complained about the release date, the reason people complain about release dates or at least most people that do, is because normally no information is given, if they said hey, we need 3 months to get some really game breaking bugs out of this game, I certainly wouldn't have minded, unfortunately it seems they spent more time trying to get the demo out and working than they did getting the campaign game working!

thats a joke, probably a bad one but anyway

as my last point I would like to point out that I don't see why I shouldn't be able to criticise CA for releasing an inferior product, credit where credit is due, yes the potential for this game is awesome and it is fun as long as you don't bother trying to invade other regions by sea, but at the moment it is just potential and next time they might want to think about realising that potential and actually getting someone to beta test it before releasing it

Anyway, Not Happy CA!

/rant

[NimitsTexan]

Personally, I would rather have the game now, bugs and all, than wait another 3 months.

[pevergreen]

Bugs are not global.

I have not had a CTD yet.

CA have played this game, a lot. Yet they can't, as Lemur said, go round and test every combination of OS's, motherboards, graphics cards with drivers etc. They test with what they have.

A closed beta of 15gb?

The extra month was not for the multiplayer campaign to be put in. don't know why people are still assuming it.

[Durallan]

then you are one of the very lucky few who have a bug free game, and I'm glad that you have had no problems with that, however me and other people are having bugs which halt the progress of the game completely, not a little, not a little annoying, the game becomes unplayable, and we have a right to complain about that, and it must be a pretty strange bug then, I'm running xp service pack 3 and I would be suprised that one of their computers is not running that operating system yet if they didn't have that problem I would sure like to know why. And if the extra month was not for this multiplayer campaign mode, what was it for? because it sure didn't fix any bugs...

[Akka]

People prefering to get a game right now, full of bugs, than a little later but more polished...

That's really kiddy thinking "I want it now ! I want it now !".
Grow up, become adults and learn to have standards. It's not by swallowing everything thrown at you that you'll increase quality of work. If people are stupid enough to buy half-finished game, that's no surprise we're seeing more and more of this since a few years.

God I'm happy not to have bought this one. Steam-released, forced upgrade and half-finished ?
Yeah, no thanks, I'll pass.

[antisocialmunky]

Akka, you're arguing that the people telling other people to patiently wait for patches to sort everthing out are immature. What the hell dude? That makes no sense because those people are satisfied to wait. Most of us knew it would be this way and we bought it anyway, trusting CA to do what they should do and they are. We're not idiots, we been around long enough to know how it works.

Your 2 cents are welcome but don't go swinging at everyone like a bar room brawl or atleast get your facts straight.

There are a lot of valid viewpoints to this thing:
-I paid $50+ for a polished game and am angry because its buggy.
-I paid $50+ for a playable game and am angry because I can't get it to run.
-I paid $50+ for a game that will eventually be playable and and disappointed.
-I paid $50+ for a game knowing that it would probably be buggy and am satisfied that it will be fixed eventually.

Honestly, this is debate isn't going to change anyone's mind since your viewpoint is dictated by your expectations.

[Gaiseric]

What? If I knew ETW was going to be this buggy, I would have waited for patches and a price drop to buy it. I paid the retail $50 because I am a fan of CAs' work. After playing ETW, I am very dissapointed. I dont care how good support is, the game should not have been released in this state. I like alot of the new features in the game, but when it is this buggy, playing ETW will waste my time and ruin my opinion of CA.

I don't know who started the concept of release dates for PC games. Its good to know what developers are working on, but please dont rush your games. A game should be finished, complete, and tested before it hits store shelves. I dont care if you have to delay release for 6 months, just give me a game worth playing. Programmers will have to be paid weather the game is delayed or if it is patched. The differance is customer satisfaction.

[Durallan]

thats a fair point you raise, but I think the main point is that If theyve been doing it since the series began, then maybe we ought to stop buying it straight away, as I only came along with Medieval 2 and the kafuffle with the patches at that stage, I figured they might not want such glaring crashes in the game on release. Still I did pay my money and bought it and not having it work now does make me feel rather foolish. I know it will get fixed in time probably, I know CA did a good job of Medieval 2, but when you are trying to convince your friends to get it to play with you, it crashing in the middle or at the end of a battle Really isn't a good look. I have to say that while the game probably will be fixed eventually, that it still has put a dent in my confidence of buying let alone pre ordering another total war game. yes, we should be patient for fixes, yes it should have been released properly, CA are just going to have to take a long hard look at themselves and decide if they really want this happening a third time.

If the problems are fixed in 3 months (and major ones fixed next week or 2) I'll be a happy bunny and reconsider pre ordering their next game, if it takes longer than that to make it shiney, I'll have to think about it.

However having said that, if we knew they were going to do this to us, why do we let them get away with it? By now we should be saying you shouldn't be doing this, you've had awhile to fix your beta testing and bug crushing procedures even if it is a new game. The ball is firmly in CA's court.

Edit: and spot on Gaiseric.

[Vlad Tzepes]

I am very happy CA is planning several patches to fix things in the future. I am grateful for that. This is how I feel about every company that made anything I own. When I got my car, the manufacturer said "don't worry if it breaks with no apparent reason next week, we'll fix that at some point, just be patient". I got a new TV set last month and the dealer also reassured me - "if it freezes or restarts or CTDs for no reason, wait for a patch. We're here to help you. Trust us." This is how things work, don't they?

Well... not at all.

Let's be honest. If somebody would try selling you something with the promise he'll fix the bugs, at some time in the future, you would laugh at him. I want something that works properly for the money I pay. This isn't offensive, this isn't bashing or mewling. This is just common sense.

Now, I am not talking about ETW's graphics, about AI behavior, about the general mechanics of the game. There are limits in any software and there are different views on how things should look. You can't argue with people's tastes.

What I'm really hating are the bugs that make your game unplayable, those that don't have anything to do with one's computer specs. CTD's, computer restarts, lags when everything else runs smoothly on the highest settings possible... That should have been sorted out before release. This is just common sense and respect for your customers.

Of course I love the TW series. I had a crush on Shogun and got every other TW title. But this doesn't mean I should accept anything. Love is not only about passion, it is about trust and honesty as well.

Imagine CA/SEGA would say: "look, guys, the game isn't quite finished and we'll keep updating it. Now here's the deal: you can buy the game as it is for 20 bucks and add an extra 10 for every patch. Or you could wait for it to be fully stabilized and pay the full 59.99 EUR."

This would be a way to know how many fanatic fans you have and how many usual customers that would rather wait for a stable version.

Of course I would go for the beta the moment it's available, but this would be in full conscience. I wouldn't feel duped. Being duped has quite adverse effects on loving somebody.

And also in a customer-seller relationship, after all.

[Akka]

Akka, you're arguing that the people telling other people to patiently wait for patches to sort everthing out are immature.

Mmh, no, I'm telling to people who say "hey, the game was released half-finished, but it's better than to have a pushed release so the game is released finished !" that they are immature (and counter-productive).

I think you read my message with the opposite meaning than it had ^^

but I think the main point is that If theyve been doing it since the series began, then maybe we ought to stop buying it straight away

That's also my opinion, and one of the main reasons I didn't bought the game, unlike every other in the serie.

[Dogfish]

Bugs are not global.

I have not had a CTD yet.

CA have played this game, a lot. Yet they can't, as Lemur said, go round and test every combination of OS's, motherboards, graphics cards with drivers etc. They test with what they have.

A closed beta of 15gb?

The extra month was not for the multiplayer campaign to be put in. don't know why people are still assuming it.

People, we need to separate the compatibility issues from the gameplay issues. Functionality testing and compatibility testing are two completely different test methodologies and usually are in separate labs with separate people. When I was in QA we had a 12-person team for functionality testing on the most popular configs, and then 3-person team in a 50-machine lab for compatibility testing. So yes, compatibility issues aren't global, but gameplay ones are.

I mean, I haven't had a CTD yet, either. Even if I did, I'm fine with, and completely understanding of, compatibility issues. That said, with the number of complaints regarding CTD's and such, they probably should've spent more time in that area as well. But I guarantee you every single copy of the game out there that is on the current release version has:

A) No naval transport by the AI
B) Pathfinding errors
C) Passive campaign AI
D) Raiding/destroying factories don't reduce income
E) Balance issues (Such as Fluyts and Galleys vs SOLs)
F) Battle AI occasionally gets stuck in loops
G) Fixed artillery in reinforcements sometimes get stuck off-map and prevent the battle from finishing
H) Ships sailing upwind raise their sails and become almost immune to chain shot
I) SAVED GAME CORRUPTION

... you get the idea. I can post a much larger list of issues like that if necessary. For a quality title, with this much hype and marketing behind it, issues like this should not be present. Not if CA wants to maintain their reputation, which is already cracking due to the last couple of releases going downhill in this regard compared to Shogun and MTW. Issues like this are present either by bad design, lack of testing, or rushing of release. There are no other reasons. Bad design, lack of testing, or lack of development time. Different system configurations have no bearing on these issues. None. Zero. Nada.

Now, some of these are more prevalent for some than others, dependent upon how you play the game. If you play as the Ottomans and never try to go colonial, odds are you aren't going to mind the lack of AI naval transport. But if you play as Great Britain, then it's almost a gamebreaker. You can leave England completely defenseless without worry, and you are never challenged in India by other colonial powers.

But again, hardware combinations have no bearing on poor design decisions or gameplay issues like the ones above.

Also, why not a closed beta of 15gb? How is that any different than releasing a 15gb game as a digital download through Steam?

Also Also, http://www.videogamer.com/news/creat...war_delay.html

Empire: Total War developer Creative Assembly has explained the game's delay, saying it will allow time for polish and a new multiplayer campaign mode.

I was never under the impression the MP campaign was going to be released with the game, I thought it was to put in the foundation for it and finish it up post-release, but it was one of the main factors in the delay, and with news items written like that it's easy to see why some people are confused about the matter. I also find it slightly amusing that the delay was for "polish". Marketing like that is why I was expecting nagging small gameplay issues like the above to be ironed out before release.