Galloromans: Marian Cohorts?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Hi,

in my game, the Romans have conquered all of Gaul but were thrown out of Italy, hence I called them "Imperium Galloromanum". So Gaul is since 30 years firmly under their control.

So if the Romans really survive in Gaul against their own Gaulish subjugates, what military would they field? They can't train Polybian troops any more of course, have only some of them left. Surely there would be created units that bring together the best of both worlds.

That's why I came up with the idea of making the Marian Reforms for them available. I believe Marian troops are trainable in Gallia, right? The Romans always learned from other cultures' militaries. The helmet and chainmail of the cohorts is Celtic style, isn't it?

Would you think it's feasable to make Marian Cohorts for them available, as some sort of evolved Gallo-Roman soldier?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

You could make the Neitos available at lower level MICs or something. They seem like the kind of way Roman overloads would field Gallic subjects if they had to depend on them for heavy infantry.

[satalexton]

no, u'll fight hordes of endless vigiles. Use Massalia and northern Italy as a base and purge the unclean back into the warp.

[Macilrille]

Sounds like an interesting campaign. I expect you to have been thrown out on purpose? As an experiment? Nothing has ever thrown my Romans out of anywhere for more than a year or two if I did not want to (I just let Ankyra rebel so the Averni had somewhere to hide from the Sweboz hordes. Of course that leaves them at war with me, but that will allow me, not the Sweboz, to get Massilia).

[Maion Maroneios]

That's a very interesting question actually. If you ask me, I don't think you could see a "Roman Empire" reborn from Roman fugitives in Gallia. Certainly, the local troops would be influenced by Roman society, customs, etc., but I am certain that it would be the Romans who would be more influenced by the Celtic society.

So basically I don't believe it would be possible to see Marian units in this case

Maion

[Aemilius Paulus]

Well, why not? I mean, sure, you will see quite a bit of Vigiles and Lugoae, but the Marians are trainable almost everywhere, so your "GalloRomans" should field some of them too. If they have the higher factional MICs that is. However, those things take quite some time to build, so I don't know if the AI will actually go the extra kilometre to do it. Perhaps adding some money for AI?

[machinor]

That's a very interesting question actually. If you ask me, I don't think you could see a "Roman Empire" reborn from Roman fugitives in Gallia. Certainly, the local troops would be influenced by Roman society, customs, etc., but I am certain that it would be the Romans who would be more influenced by the Celtic society.

So basically I don't believe it would be possible to see Marian units in this case

Maion

I disagree. Think about Quintus Sertorius in Spain. He raised Spanish Legions formed of warriors of allied tribes and even an exile senate. I think it would work very well in Gaul. Especially since the Gauls had a similar battle doctrine (so to speak), relying on heavy infantry.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Sounds like an interesting campaign. I expect you to have been thrown out on purpose? As an experiment? Nothing has ever thrown my Romans out of anywhere for more than a year or two if I did not want to (I just let Ankyra rebel so the Averni had somewhere to hide from the Sweboz hordes. Of course that leaves them at war with me, but that will allow me, not the Sweboz, to get Massilia).

Sorry if I wasn't clear! I'm Makedonia. I kicked their butts.

Of the 11 settlements they have, they have upgraded three settlements to Roman cities. One of these more Romanized towns they made their capital. I live since more or less 25 years peacefully with them, although there is officially the state of war. They are filthy rich, the richest faction in the game, but they have close to no military. All they have is a half stack, and almost all towns are guarded by a single unit or a lonesome family member.

In comparison, the Lusitanians have only five settlements left, of which I alreay pillaged two, but they keep and keep attacking me. They really put up a great fight, contrary to the Getai who don't do anything with their three full stacks. But that's another story...

I think the crucial point is the following: do the Romans survive in enemy territory or not? They can only survive if they impose a significant part of their culture, structure and doctrine on the Gauls, at least initially. The Gauls are already fairly civilised (albeit surely not in the eyes of the Romans), so they could most likely adapt to their new overlords. Not so good as the Greeks did adapt to the Romans, sure, but much better than the Germans for example.

If the Romans do not impose their military structure on the Gauls, they'd get kicked out. If they let them recruit Celtic units of a class above Lugoae or Gaeroas, they would revolt and quickly do perfectly without the Romans.

Also, I had my Yuezhi incursion already, but no Casse invasion so far. I'm getting into trouble to explain why the Casse don't take on the opportunity and simply steamroll all of Gaul. They have four full stacks waiting in Londinium. I have to decide whether I teleport them over, and let the Galloroman Empire be a mere footnote of history, or if I allow the Galloromans a reform, a product of the intermingling of cultures, so that they'd be finally able to repel the Britons and put up a great fight against me.

I reckon it would depend a lot on who had defeated them as well.

I defeated them, but only in Italy! At the same time I kicked them out, they kicked the Aedui and Arverni out of Gaul. They had taken on Gaul early, and had conquered an access to the channel already, when I launched a Celtic crusade to liberate the Celts in Northern Italy. I gave these settlements to the Arverni, who had a really large empire by then. But these treatment made the Romans only stronger. They just did not give up, and while they lost to me, they carved out a Gallic empire and defeated the Arverni in absolutely no time. Read it in my AAR!

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Maybe you should just roleplay that the Kelts overthrew their Roman overlords who were in the minority, but they decided to kept some of their technology (city appearance and building types). Then just rename and recolor them something Keltic. Although you'd have to ignore the names of the generals.