light spear balance (vs. swords) in 1.2

**artavazd** · 03-24-2009, 02:41

All units should not be balanced. Historicaly some units were just better than others. An armored swored unit is more flexible than an armored spear unit. Historicaly that is how ROme beat KH. They were more flexible. NOw KH can make use of Thesalyian Cav. When fighting against Rome. If it becomes a little more difficult for KH to face a Roman army, than that is better because it is more historicaly accurate.

**mcantu** · 03-24-2009, 03:44

Originally Posted by artavazd

All units should not be balanced. Historicaly some units were just better than others. An armored swored unit is more flexible than an armored spear unit. Historicaly that is how ROme beat KH. They were more flexible. NOw KH can make use of Thesalyian Cav. When fighting against Rome. If it becomes a little more difficult for KH to face a Roman army, than that is better because it is more historicaly accurate.

i take 'balanced' to mean proportionally adjusted; not equal to...

**mosedavid** · 03-24-2009, 22:17

hi, downloaded your file.................... makes since to me (!) but i got an error....i didnt write it down but it said 'couldnt find' some bit.. i'm using RTW era's edition. I'm assuming you made an error somewhere.

... i'll write it down later if you want but was mid flow so didnt want to have to start the campaign again

**Drewski** · 03-25-2009, 15:44

Originally Posted by mosedavid

hi, downloaded your file.................... makes since to me (!) but i got an error....i didnt write it down but it said 'couldnt find' some bit.. i'm using RTW era's edition. I'm assuming you made an error somewhere.

... i'll write it down later if you want but was mid flow so didnt want to have to start the campaign again

I'm sorry, I don't completely understand you (if you meant the file I adjusted)...can you restate your error and the problem you are having?.

Thanks.

**Drewski** · 03-29-2009, 11:08

Anyone tried the Spears/Pikes fix? And if so, what have your impressions been?

Thanks.

**Ravenfeeder** · 03-29-2009, 12:47

Haven't tried it yet. Is it save game compatible? How does this affect autoresolve?

**Zett** · 03-29-2009, 13:12

Originally Posted by Ravenfeeder

Haven't tried it yet. Is it save game compatible? How does this affect autoresolve?

EDU (export_descr_unit) changes are savegame compatible.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

**Revenant** · 03-29-2009, 13:41

Originally Posted by Drewski

Anyone tried the Spears/Pikes fix? And if so, what have your impressions been?

Thanks.

I did.

Currently, I am playing as KH, so I am in the middle of it:)

So far the majority of my opponents, namely Macedonia, Pontos and AS are using mainly spear units too, so no much power shift here.

At the beginning, the strong unit are peltasts, because they are sword unit. They work like "baby legionnaries". Interesting are also Iphikratean Hoplites, because they have secondary sword and they have a bit better defence than peltasts.

But the most excellent unit are of course Thorakitai hoplitai. Not only they have decent stats and affordable upkeep/price, but they have armour piercing sword as their secondary weapon. Nice versatile unit with spear/ap sword combo.

Traditional infantry types like Hopliatai and even Epilektoi Hoplitai pale before mentioned units. But I used family members units (spartiates and Epilektoi BG) a lot and they performed well.

The same is with Thorakitai and maybe Thurephoroi, but i did not try any of the latter yet.

So the conclusion is, KH has units that can stand toe to toe against sword infantry, but it differs to unmodded version of EB, whre classical hoplitai were one of the most useful units.

Thats probably because opponents are using a lot of infantry here, if they were using cavalry instead, it would be another story.

Lately I tried Thorakitai Hoplitai vs. Hypaspists in SP to test them and they butchered macedonian elites with no mercy. The same case would probably be with even such units as roman principes or maybe even legionnaries, ap sword is really killer vs. well armoured infantry.

The conclusion is I like it. The only drawback is that AI probably do not use secondary weapons, so some units will be probably too weak when used by it. True, as somebody posted here before, KH should be a weak faction anyways.

Rev

**Zett** · 03-30-2009, 02:33

Originally Posted by Revenant

The same case would probably be with even such units as roman principes or maybe even legionnaries, ap sword is really killer vs. well armoured infantry.

After all the Thorakitai Hoplitai are elites and you need a level 4 MIC to recruit them. Princeps are only medium infantery (available at level 2 MIC).

The Mod as far as I know didn't change the Thorakitai Hoplitai (ecxept removing the +4 attack bonus for spear attack). So the sword attack is the same as in vanilla EB.
If you fight against other Roman elites (such as Pedites Extraordinarii) you will see, that the Thorakitai Hoplitai are still a 'weak' elite unit.

Originally Posted by Revenant

The only drawback is that AI probably do not use secondary weapons, so some units will be probably too weak when used by it.

AFAIK if a soldier gets knocked down he will switch to his secondary weapon automaticly. So the Thorakitai Hoplitai would fight with swords (not all, but some of them).

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam