light spear balance (vs. swords) in 1.2

[Intranetusa]

Known but not adopted by the Chinese.
Do you really want to get me started into Nomadic Cavalry and styles employed by the Chinese?

They did have both around EB's time period.

After Kublai Khan died, the empire quickly broke up into pieces, and disintegrated shortly afterwards. Only the vast imperialist domains of various European powers can be called great empires.

Most of the empires under Mongol control kept their territory intact (abet fractured) and lasted about 200 years. Most Imperialistic European empires lasted less than 100 years.

If the Mongols were bad administrators, then whatever the Europeans were doing was far worse.

[siegfriedfr]

Sorry to revive such a dead thread but the downloadable files being unavalaible, i'm trying to understand what was done here to recreate my own modified EDU:

What was changed exactly? "light_spear" attribute entirely removed, or 4 attack power removed from the base AP?

Thanks.

[Drewski]

Sorry to revive such a dead thread but the downloadable files being unavalaible, i'm trying to understand what was done here to recreate my own modified EDU:

What was changed exactly? "light_spear" attribute entirely removed, or 4 attack power removed from the base AP?

Thanks.

All I did was take 4 attack away from all units with the "light-spear" attr., which in EB includes phalanx units too.

I've personally done masses and masses of individual tweaking since, as taking 4 away, isn't that much more balanced than it was originally. (It's still better imo). For instance the low levy units (e.g. levy hoplites, levy Celt spear) are ridiculously overpowered with the default EB attack, and taking 4 off them makes them perform more realistically against mid level swordsmen, for example. However, mid and elite spearmen aren't quite as good as they should be with 4 attack taken away, and a lot need a sliding "tweak" scale.

So there you go ;)

[siegfriedfr]

Yes i've been editing my EDU and i tought that a flat out removal of 4 attack on medium/elite hoplite was crippling compared to other units. So i've done -4 for untrained, -2 for trained and -1 for highly trained.

What other tweaks have you been doing?

Thanks for the answer!

[Drewski]

Yes i've been editing my EDU and i tought that a flat out removal of 4 attack on medium/elite hoplite was crippling compared to other units. So i've done -4 for untrained, -2 for trained and -1 for highly trained.

What other tweaks have you been doing?

Thanks for the answer!

That's quite similar to how I have them (even though I've taken each and every unit on individual merits, with cost also taken into consideration). I tend to forget some of the minor tweaks. The other main one, is taking the 5 shield away from Phalanx units (which gets doubled in phalanx mode, to make them almost impervious to missiles). It's a tiny little shield too if you look ! I have basic phalanx with 2 shield value, and elites 3. Works ok for me, playing as phalanx based nations, and against them.

I also remember making Balearic and Rhodian Slingers slightly better (something like 5 extra stones each, and an extra point of attack), to show their elite status, and making Spartans slightly better (36 men base and an extra point of attack)- the Spartans I just wanted to be the best hoplitai ;)

[Metaluis90]

hi everybody, I've just read the whole discussion between drewski and watchman about which weapong would perform the best... It was really enjoyable, let me tell you both :)
anyway I wanted to know if the shieldwall ability (additioned by the BI.exe) compensates this lack of defense, or I-don't-know-what-it-is that everybody is praising-complaining about...

As far as I know, this attack bonus to the spearmen was given due the fact that a proper phalanx (or hoplitic) formation couldn't be properly represented in the RTW engine, then, in my humble opinion, the reduction of this base attack would be legitimated


Another thing, the other day I was making 1v1 units fight just out of fun, myself always using the praetorian cohort... anyway, what make me astonished was that the elite heavy spearmen for the seleukids BEAT THE SH1T OUT OF my pretorians... is it that normal? I mean is used them in a flat, desertic map, with no advantages for any sides apart form the numbers (pretorians' got 83 soldiers, against 63 of the spearmen, if I remember correctly) another thing, my praetorians were on guard mode! is it normal?

[Drewski]

hi everybody, I've just read the whole discussion between drewski and watchman about which weapong would perform the best... It was really enjoyable, let me tell you both :)
anyway I wanted to know if the shieldwall ability (additioned by the BI.exe) compensates this lack of defense, or I-don't-know-what-it-is that everybody is praising-complaining about...

As far as I know, this attack bonus to the spearmen was given due the fact that a proper phalanx (or hoplitic) formation couldn't be properly represented in the RTW engine, then, in my humble opinion, the reduction of this base attack would be legitimated


Another thing, the other day I was making 1v1 units fight just out of fun, myself always using the praetorian cohort... anyway, what make me astonished was that the elite heavy spearmen for the seleukids BEAT THE SH1T OUT OF my pretorians... is it that normal? I mean is used them in a flat, desertic map, with no advantages for any sides apart form the numbers (pretorians' got 83 soldiers, against 63 of the spearmen, if I remember correctly) another thing, my praetorians were on guard mode! is it normal?

Glad you found it of interest :)

Those Elite Selec Spearmen (I'm guessing you mean the Basilikou) have full mail body armour (19 armour in game) and 34 total defence (ouch). They have a much better attack too than the Praets, who don't have an AP weapon, and only .13 lethality. Those Basilikou will beat the stuffing out of just about anything. So no real suprise there..