light spear balance (vs. swords) in 1.2

**siegfriedfr** · 08-02-2010, 20:50

Yes i've been editing my EDU and i tought that a flat out removal of 4 attack on medium/elite hoplite was crippling compared to other units. So i've done -4 for untrained, -2 for trained and -1 for highly trained.

What other tweaks have you been doing?

Thanks for the answer!

**Drewski** · 08-02-2010, 23:11

Originally Posted by siegfriedfr

Yes i've been editing my EDU and i tought that a flat out removal of 4 attack on medium/elite hoplite was crippling compared to other units. So i've done -4 for untrained, -2 for trained and -1 for highly trained.

What other tweaks have you been doing?

Thanks for the answer!

That's quite similar to how I have them (even though I've taken each and every unit on individual merits, with cost also taken into consideration). I tend to forget some of the minor tweaks. The other main one, is taking the 5 shield away from Phalanx units (which gets doubled in phalanx mode, to make them almost impervious to missiles). It's a tiny little shield too if you look ! I have basic phalanx with 2 shield value, and elites 3. Works ok for me, playing as phalanx based nations, and against them.

I also remember making Balearic and Rhodian Slingers slightly better (something like 5 extra stones each, and an extra point of attack), to show their elite status, and making Spartans slightly better (36 men base and an extra point of attack)- the Spartans I just wanted to be the best hoplitai ;)

**Metaluis90** · 08-03-2010, 00:12

hi everybody, I've just read the whole discussion between drewski and watchman about which weapong would perform the best... It was really enjoyable, let me tell you both :)
anyway I wanted to know if the shieldwall ability (additioned by the BI.exe) compensates this lack of defense, or I-don't-know-what-it-is that everybody is praising-complaining about...

As far as I know, this attack bonus to the spearmen was given due the fact that a proper phalanx (or hoplitic) formation couldn't be properly represented in the RTW engine, then, in my humble opinion, the reduction of this base attack would be legitimated

Another thing, the other day I was making 1v1 units fight just out of fun, myself always using the praetorian cohort... anyway, what make me astonished was that the elite heavy spearmen for the seleukids BEAT THE SH1T OUT OF my pretorians... is it that normal? I mean is used them in a flat, desertic map, with no advantages for any sides apart form the numbers (pretorians' got 83 soldiers, against 63 of the spearmen, if I remember correctly) another thing, my praetorians were on guard mode! is it normal?

**Drewski** · 08-03-2010, 01:37

Originally Posted by Metaluis90

hi everybody, I've just read the whole discussion between drewski and watchman about which weapong would perform the best... It was really enjoyable, let me tell you both :)
anyway I wanted to know if the shieldwall ability (additioned by the BI.exe) compensates this lack of defense, or I-don't-know-what-it-is that everybody is praising-complaining about...

As far as I know, this attack bonus to the spearmen was given due the fact that a proper phalanx (or hoplitic) formation couldn't be properly represented in the RTW engine, then, in my humble opinion, the reduction of this base attack would be legitimated

Another thing, the other day I was making 1v1 units fight just out of fun, myself always using the praetorian cohort... anyway, what make me astonished was that the elite heavy spearmen for the seleukids BEAT THE SH1T OUT OF my pretorians... is it that normal? I mean is used them in a flat, desertic map, with no advantages for any sides apart form the numbers (pretorians' got 83 soldiers, against 63 of the spearmen, if I remember correctly) another thing, my praetorians were on guard mode! is it normal?

Glad you found it of interest :)

Those Elite Selec Spearmen (I'm guessing you mean the Basilikou) have full mail body armour (19 armour in game) and 34 total defence (ouch). They have a much better attack too than the Praets, who don't have an AP weapon, and only .13 lethality. Those Basilikou will beat the stuffing out of just about anything. So no real suprise there..

**Metaluis90** · 08-03-2010, 02:01

I slightly read something about that in their unit description... they are stated as the best assault unit of the world (or something like that) but is the difference between units that different? I mean you are not talking about a standard legionary, we are talking about the pretorians, the elite of the elite of the roman empire. I mean, I really dont want to look like a roman fanboy, altough i do love the history of this civilization... but has the difference must be that overwhelming? When I stopped that battle the basilikou got 40 of their men, while the pretorians only 20 or less, in big unit scale

out of topic, I got a problem downloading both your mod and BI.exe mod made by Drapezhnik!
when i want to download yours, it says that there's a missing file, or the file cannot be find (in the mozilla browser, translated to English "File not found") and in Drapezhnik's one, Filefront says there is a unexpected error, or something like that... If only you could reupload the file, i would really appreciate it :)

**siegfriedfr** · 08-03-2010, 07:42

In other words drewski, can you post your current Edu please? :)

**Drewski** · 08-03-2010, 22:22

Originally Posted by siegfriedfr

In other words drewski, can you post your current Edu please? :)

I can do that no problem, but make a copy of yours before overwriting, as {see above posts} : loads of little tweaks here and there. I don't have the basic original "-4 off all light_spear" anymore, it was on my old PC, and I had a dedicated gaming machine custom made in April (which is still very nice ;))

Uploaded my current EDU to filefront here

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 08-05-2010, 06:22

Originally Posted by Metaluis90

I slightly read something about that in their unit description... they are stated as the best assault unit of the world (or something like that) but is the difference between units that different? I mean you are not talking about a standard legionary, we are talking about the pretorians, the elite of the elite of the roman empire. I mean, I really dont want to look like a roman fanboy, altough i do love the history of this civilization... but has the difference must be that overwhelming? When I stopped that battle the basilikou got 40 of their men, while the pretorians only 20 or less, in big unit scale

Praetorians are far from the elite soldiers in this game. TAB's should slaughter them. I would think Carthage has at least 3 units capable of beating them (Elite Liby Phonecians, Iberian Assault, Sacred Band), Arche 3 as well (TAB's, Hypaspistai, Peltastai Makedonikai), I would think Solduros, Carnutes, and Gaesatae would beat them, maybe even Neitos. In fact there are probably about 20 better units, maybe more.

**Metaluis90** · 08-06-2010, 17:54

Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin

Praetorians are far from the elite soldiers in this game. TAB's should slaughter them. I would think Carthage has at least 3 units capable of beating them (Elite Liby Phonecians, Iberian Assault, Sacred Band), Arche 3 as well (TAB's, Hypaspistai, Peltastai Makedonikai), I would think Solduros, Carnutes, and Gaesatae would beat them, maybe even Neitos. In fact there are probably about 20 better units, maybe more.

yes, I also tried pretorians vs gaesatae, and the celts would have beaten them, if I hadn't use guard mode.

So if pretorians are far from the elite of the elite of the game, where does their strenght lies? in their stamina?