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Thread: Horse archers : oh, come on...
Originally Posted by Kobal2fr:
I realize that, however for me it most often happens to cavalry running around. And it makes sense : if one guy in a marching line battalion gets separated from the pack, he can race and catch up. But a straggler can't run up to an already running unit.
Also, horses really, really have trouble with walls if they don't happen onto them at a perfect 90° angle, and when I'm micro-ing 3 or 4 units of HAs at a time and trying to anticipate the instant the AI unit will volley to move them back just before that, I don't have much time to babysit each...
And Mystiqblackcat, I realize muskets aren't as precise as bows, but I'm not asking for mounted snipers. They can be as inaccurate as blind mice if they want, as long as they fire on the damn move !
I want to apologize ahead of time if I sound condescending, I do not mean to if I am. A buddy of mine said I was coming off that way and I really just trying to be helpful.I realize that, however for me it most often happens to cavalry running around. And it makes sense : if one guy in a marching line battalion gets separated from the pack, he can race and catch up. But a straggler can't run up to an already running unit.
Also, horses really, really have trouble with walls if they don't happen onto them at a perfect 90° angle, and when I'm micro-ing 3 or 4 units of HAs at a time and trying to anticipate the instant the AI unit will volley to move them back just before that, I don't have much time to babysit each...
And Mystiqblackcat, I realize muskets aren't as precise as bows, but I'm not asking for mounted snipers. They can be as inaccurate as blind mice if they want, as long as they fire on the damn move !
I understand your frustrations, I really do. I am just a very patient person so I over look the pathing problems. I am still looking for new ways to use them effectively. Recently I fought a large action as post revolution France against the Dutch I believe. In any case I used two squads of Carabineers to ride around to the side of the Dutch line who outnumbered me ~1000 to ~750 after battle was joined and had them let loose a couple volleys on their left which helped it to rout allowing me to roll up my right and subsequently helped me win the engagement. The Dutch did send a reserve regiment of foot toward my Light Dragoons but they easily outpaced them and drew them away from the main battle.
Try using them purely as flankers. They aren't good skirmishers because they reload slow and don't have alot of range like light infantry. Use them to attack from unsuspecting angles or to harass lone enemy units. They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.
Firing a musket while riding a horse would seem to be pretty difficult, and reloading would be impossible. To be fair, I've never fired a musket but I have used a modern black powder rifle which would be easier to fire and reload than an 18th century musket on a moving horse and it still seems like an impossible task. Plus accuracy would greatly suffer if firing on the move, so much so that all you would get for your trouble was alot of noise and smoke but nothing terribly dangerous.
Originally Posted by Mystiqblackcat:
They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.
There's the rub. I can't get Light Dragoons, Camel Gunners, and the like to reload on horseback for love or money. They absolutely refuse to reload unless there is an enemy in range and they are either ordered to shoot at them or have fire at will turned on.They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.
Originally Posted by Feanaro:
There's the rub. I can't get Light Dragoons, Camel Gunners, and the like to reload on horseback for love or money. They absolutely refuse to reload unless there is an enemy in range and they are either ordered to shoot at them or have fire at will turned on.
I haven't tested it out to check it but that is an annoying bug. I understand not reloading when on the move, but they definitely should reload if they are standing around idly.There's the rub. I can't get Light Dragoons, Camel Gunners, and the like to reload on horseback for love or money. They absolutely refuse to reload unless there is an enemy in range and they are either ordered to shoot at them or have fire at will turned on.
I'll have to test the mounted reload thing, however, I know for a fact that my Ottoman infantry skirmishers reload when idle because I used that trait to good effect to massacre a whole Cossack regiment using 'shoot and scoot' tactic's. A lot of micro-management that should have been done automatically by the skirmish button but nevertheless it did work.
Originally Posted by Didz:
I'll have to test the mounted reload thing, however, I know for a fact that my Ottoman infantry skirmishers reload when idle because I used that trait to good effect to massacre a whole Cossack regiment using 'shoot and scoot' tactic's. A lot of micro-management that should have been done automatically by the skirmish button but nevertheless it did work.
I have no issues with foot skirmishers. It's just mounted troops with muskets. It's especially frustrating with units like Camel Gunners, who have a reload skill of FIVE. Unless the enemy sits still, they are basically one shot ponies... errr, camels.I'll have to test the mounted reload thing, however, I know for a fact that my Ottoman infantry skirmishers reload when idle because I used that trait to good effect to massacre a whole Cossack regiment using 'shoot and scoot' tactic's. A lot of micro-management that should have been done automatically by the skirmish button but nevertheless it did work.
Does anyone else think the mounted reloading animation looks funny for carbineless units because more often than not they are rubbing their guns quite vigorously?
"A man gets... lonely out in the desert..."
Originally Posted by Mystiqblackcat:
Try using them purely as flankers. They aren't good skirmishers because they reload slow and don't have alot of range like light infantry. Use them to attack from unsuspecting angles or to harass lone enemy units. They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.
Yeah, that's what I've started doing, and it does work better than using them like in the previous games, as a sort of pre-battle skirmish. This time around, this tactic doesn't work and you really have to wait until the battle proper has begun and both lines are merrily shooting each other at point blank to send the HAs around. Pity. Not sure they're pulling their weight in upkeep that way, but then again as the Russians your line infantry has the properties of a vacuum, so they need all the help they can get Try using them purely as flankers. They aren't good skirmishers because they reload slow and don't have alot of range like light infantry. Use them to attack from unsuspecting angles or to harass lone enemy units. They are great for killing enemy Generals, just ride around to the rear, form up and let loose a few volleys until the bodygaurd starts to move, then retreat and try again after they have reloaded.
Originally Posted by :
Plus accuracy would greatly suffer if firing on the move, so much so that all you would get for your trouble was alot of noise and smoke but nothing terribly dangerous.
Which is all I'd ask for, really. Unless you use a whole lot of them (something I simply can't do, I get overwhelmed trying to get all of them out of harm's way), HAs aren't killers, but their mere presence round the back and the woosh woosh of arrows (or, as the case may be, bullets) coming from the back does wonders on enemy morale. Plus accuracy would greatly suffer if firing on the move, so much so that all you would get for your trouble was alot of noise and smoke but nothing terribly dangerous.
What I hoped for (and was used to) was a quick run up to them, volley, then split up and move to the flanks in a Y, running like hell at the first sign of serious trouble or, god forbid, if archers stop moving. That way, their foot troops entered the fray with lower morale and maybe even tired already if they foolishly tried to run after the horsemen.
This doesn't work in Empire. At all.
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