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Originally Posted by Cyclops:
Is this one of those situations where people confuse the name peltast (medium javelin armed skirmishers carrying a pelta type shield) with a peltast (any unit carrying a pelta type shield)?
I find the whole pelta-theuro-dory-hoplon nomenclature thing occasionally confusing. Is their an agreed harmonisation for ancient military terms? The EB nomenclature seems reasonably consistent, perhaps its that the source material is a bit loose with its definitions sometimes.
Is this one of those situations where people confuse the name peltast (medium javelin armed skirmishers carrying a pelta type shield) with a peltast (any unit carrying a pelta type shield)?
I find the whole pelta-theuro-dory-hoplon nomenclature thing occasionally confusing. Is their an agreed harmonisation for ancient military terms? The EB nomenclature seems reasonably consistent, perhaps its that the source material is a bit loose with its definitions sometimes.
Originally Posted by geala:
I'm not sure about this. They used a shield of similar dimension as the phalangites and also the latters was often called pelte although it had nothing to do with the light peltai of the psiloi peltasts. I think at least partly they were called peltastai because of the use of a pelte styled (but massive) shield. It would be consistent as the hypaspists were also called after their shield type.
It's a case of the shield changing but keeping the same name. Classical peltasts used the classic pelte which seems to have been introduced by the Thracians- a light, crescent-shaped shield. The form apparently changed throughout the Classical period, so that when Iphicrates made his reforms, his men were called peltasts after their shields (according to Diodorus), which at that point (early 4th c. BC) may still have been crescent shaped (but that all depends on how you interpret Diodorus' comment, as he calls them "symmetrical"), but were otherwise quite heavily armed. In the Hellenistic period, pelte came to refer to the so-called Macedonian shield, which was the small, shallow, rimless shield about 60 cm in diameter, as it probably resembled what the pelte turned into at the end of the Classical period. Units bearing this shield - phalangites and some elite units - therefore came to be called peltastai or peltophoroi.I'm not sure about this. They used a shield of similar dimension as the phalangites and also the latters was often called pelte although it had nothing to do with the light peltai of the psiloi peltasts. I think at least partly they were called peltastai because of the use of a pelte styled (but massive) shield. It would be consistent as the hypaspists were also called after their shield type.
And as far as I know "peltastes" was also more or less a synonym for "mercenary" in the 3rd and 2nd century what gives ground to many speculations about gear and fighting. 
A question: when were the hypaspistai called peltastai? A hypaspist for me is someone "under/behind the aspis", the elite unit was named after the big shield which they often used instead of the smaller phalangite pelte. I didn't know that this changed later.
A question: when were the hypaspistai called peltastai? A hypaspist for me is someone "under/behind the aspis", the elite unit was named after the big shield which they often used instead of the smaller phalangite pelte. I didn't know that this changed later.
Originally Posted by geala:
A question: when were the hypaspistai called peltastai? A hypaspist for me is someone "under/behind the aspis", the elite unit was named after the big shield which they often used instead of the smaller phalangite pelte. I didn't know that this changed later.
FYI: Hypaspistai means "guards". Consider it the Greek equivalent of Praetorians (in the original meaning of soldiers-who-guard-the-general's-tent).A question: when were the hypaspistai called peltastai? A hypaspist for me is someone "under/behind the aspis", the elite unit was named after the big shield which they often used instead of the smaller phalangite pelte. I didn't know that this changed later.
A guard? You mean in the 3rd century? Ok. But earlier it was imho more an elite taxis for special tasks and the connection between phalanx and cavalry. I think, hypaspistes comes from hyper aspides (or similar; don't get upset, my Greek is a bit rusty 
) -under the (aspis)shield- and refers to the shields used.
Then: were the hypaspistai later also called peltastai (perhaps when the term "hypaspistai" became just a synonym for "guards")? I ask this because it was said in the thread and I can't still believe it.
) -under the (aspis)shield- and refers to the shields used.Then: were the hypaspistai later also called peltastai (perhaps when the term "hypaspistai" became just a synonym for "guards")? I ask this because it was said in the thread and I can't still believe it.
Originally Posted by geala:
A guard? You mean in the 3rd century? Ok. But earlier it was imho more an elite taxis for special tasks and the connection between phalanx and cavalry. I think, hypaspistes comes from hyper aspides - under the (aspis)shield (don't get upset, my Greek is a bit rusty)- and refers to the shields used.
Then: were the hypaspistai later also called peltastai (perhaps when the term "hypaspistai" became just a synonym for "guards")? I ask this because it was said in the thread and I can't still believe it.
Hypaspistes means guard. Ergo: hypaspistai (plural) means guards. That's all I meant.A guard? You mean in the 3rd century? Ok. But earlier it was imho more an elite taxis for special tasks and the connection between phalanx and cavalry. I think, hypaspistes comes from hyper aspides - under the (aspis)shield (don't get upset, my Greek is a bit rusty
)- and refers to the shields used.Then: were the hypaspistai later also called peltastai (perhaps when the term "hypaspistai" became just a synonym for "guards")? I ask this because it was said in the thread and I can't still believe it.
Hehe, your replies are too fast for my edits.
I don't think that "hypaspistes" meant "guard" in the 4th century, at least not from the beginning. But I will try to check it first in my dictionaries.
I don't think that "hypaspistes" meant "guard" in the 4th century, at least not from the beginning. But I will try to check it first in my dictionaries.
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