LotR Successor games, Kingdoms or no?

[Rowan]

Cecil just sold me on Deus lo vult. I think it would actually suit the game if you had to be either a great general or a great governor. Builders and destroyers again

[mini]

the kingdoms version would be really cool to play yeah.

Why can't ppl just grab the expansion? You can buy it for an apple and an egg in stores these days! :p

[Zim]

Lots of people hate Securom, which I guess isn't always taken off your computer even if Kingdoms is uninstalled...

[mini]

hmm.. Beats me.
Never bothered me atleast.

[Zim]

Me neither but I noticed it was a huge deal when Kingdoms came out.

So Kingdoms is pretty cheap now? I've never had much money so it was tough on me buying it when it came out. Luckily I was able to save by skimping on unimportant things, like food.

[mini]

last time I saw it in stores here, it was 3€.

And games are utterly expensive in this country :D
Well since Kingdoms brings some awesome mods with it, I'd pick it up if I didn't have it already.

[ULC]

Although I like some of the parts of DLV, I am not sold on it. There are some good parts, but there are some bad parts such as unit and building restriction that we shouldn't play with - such things should be decided by the ingame bickering of the players, not ingame scripts.

Also, I will try my to break the "Governer" and "General" system - I dislike how it can force people to play in a way they will dislike simply because of where they spawned on the first turn. It has good points, but I don't like the inability to not be able to choose. If we pick it, we need to pick where we start, and have some control over it.

I'll have to test it out when I can.

[mini]

i think we can choose what script to run and what not, no?

Maybe we can modify the scripts we want to use aswel?

[Cecil XIX]

Also, I will try my to break the "Governer" and "General" system - I dislike how it can force people to play in a way they will dislike simply because of where they spawned on the first turn. It has good points, but I don't like the inability to not be able to choose. If we pick it, we need to pick where we start, and have some control over it.

I'll have to test it out when I can.

This is indeed a point of contention, but I think we can come to a consensus that's agreeable. I should have pointed out that you choose career and education paths in Deus lo Vult by where your avatar is placed at the end of his turn. In such cases, I'm sure we'd use the console so that people are always able to make the choices they want. I mean, there's no IC reason an avatar has to come of age in any one place. It's easy to roleplay as the avatar being sent to get the education he needs/wants before reaching 16.

Also, I got my copy of Kingdoms new for $20.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Just a thought guys.
What about having a hot seat style campaign.
It could work with a few members taking the ruling places of a couple of factions. Which in turn means no compromising on the battles - they happen and not delete units after to simulate losts.
The politics and behind the scenes politics that happened throught europe could be played out. factions can war or ally in game and use the forum for terms and negotiating. It would also keep things simpler to keep track of as huoses are then dominant families of different factions.
Maybe there's something there.

[ULC]

Although a good thought MA, it's just not in the style of WotS/KotR, which is what I signed up for (and I feel so sad because I stood and watched KotR instead of jumping in , so will not happen again)

[Marcus Agrippa]

Fair enough. What does WotS and KotR stand for?

[TheFlax]

WotS = Will of the Senate and KotR = King of the Romans, those two games being the predecessors of LotR.

[mini]

Although a good thought MA, it's just not in the style of WotS/KotR, which is what I signed up for (and I feel so sad because I stood and watched KotR instead of jumping in , so will not happen again)

Well

You could combine it :)

A hotseat with a few playable factions, and in each playable factions we have a few players doing it Lotr-style :p

We create one big subforum, with smaller subforums for each faction.
Each faction will have a setup like Lotr.

[ULC]

Well

You could combine it :)

A hotseat with a few playable factions, and in each playable factions we have a few players doing it Lotr-style :p

We create one big subforum, with smaller subforums for each faction.
Each faction will have a setup like Lotr.

That borders on being a little to complex and too much work for one GM, IMO. Also, a major disadvantage of that kind of setup is a lack of IC interaction coupled with the inability to fight defensive battles (or to have way to much PvP).

[mini]

One master GM and for each faction a smaller GM :p

A lot of PVP = true. Ppl not willing to play pvp battles should therefore stay away.
pvp battles will have to be decided in multiplayer.

IC can be solved in numerous ways.
perhaps a general subform for 'world IC' where each faction can have an embassy among other things for example.

You will have to IC both national and international :p


But agreed on the amount of work. I was just spitting the idea :)

[ULC]

One master GM and for each faction a smaller GM :p

A lot of PVP = true. Ppl not willing to play pvp battles should therefore stay away.
pvp battles will have to be decided in multiplayer.

IC can be solved in numerous ways.
perhaps a general subform for 'world IC' where each faction can have an embassy among other things for example.

You will have to IC both national and international :p


But agreed on the amount of work. I was just spitting the idea :)

Oh, indeed, continue! All ideas are good so long as you take the time to refine them and think them out. An idea can only be bad if you simply act on it, without thinking

Which is what this tread is all about, discussing the possibilities for the next game. Heck who knows, if we continue to refine your idea, then it could be possible to reduce the work load through rules or simplified implementation.

[mini]

Well, I think the work aint so bad

One big Subforum
- World (with threads like faction X embassy, faction Y embassy etc, places where ppl can RP internationally, should be the main RP site. Maybe threads like: English stories, English battles and so on, for each faction. And the main OOC thread)
- Faction X (official politics and a small ooc thread)
- Faction y (official politics and a small ooc thread)
.
.
.

Each faction will ofcourse work differently in its political system.
Which can be decided by the lower-GM of each faction.

The big rules, which apply for the world can be set by a master GM.
Most of these rules can be taken from previous PBM's.
pvp however, will be in multiplayer. tabletops etc take to long.


Workign with this kind of GM structure has it's advantages: the lower-GM's only have to worry about their own faction = less work

The head GM only handles cases which have been brought to his attention by the lower GM's = less work.

haven't got any further than that though.

[ULC]

Too many GM's, not enough players, thats the main issue, and a hard one to solve.

[mini]

point taken :)

[TheFlax]

Its not only "not enough players" but by asking for only MP battles you're alienating a wide range of players (I think), plus MP really stinks. YLC and I couldn't even join each others' game in M2TW MP lobby...

Also by broadening the scope like that, you change the essence of the game. Things become much less personal at such a scale and most likely everyone in a faction will more or less play nice with each other because of external threats.

Anyways, the idea is not without merit but its widely ambitious and at the risk of presuming too much, I don't think that's what people are looking for in a successor for LotR.

[mini]

wasn't implying this should be implemented, just got carried away :P

[Marcus Agrippa]

The main idea I was thinking of was, to add dimensions to the game.

Shortly after I joined I found the pace extremely slow.
I found player interaction to be near catatonic and couldn't work out what the houses did because there were so few messages.

Basically politics is hard without some history. And every player and city being the same colour made it tough for me to work out what House asteri had let alone what my role was. Before my comp died I found myself waiting a month just to get to my post. No battles insight and people generally talking nonsense about minor rules and a dog as next emperor.
Also the houses seem to have little co-ordination.

This brought me on to the idea that using hot seat. We could fight the battles online like your having to do anyway. The politics are now internal and external. The houses are factions with their own money and hierarchy. They can work together like sister factions of a greater empire or against each other (this is what rtw had three roman factions for).

The GM can check the house (faction) forums but the only members of that faction can otherwise view and post so that's the internal politics. Regions can be gifted, money exchanged and protectorates granted with a little imagination. Also player interaction can happen through a forum embassy and transactions made or withheld like in real life history by the ruling members.
Yes PvP will happen but you guys were fighting a power battle when I arrived and not a lot seemed to happen apart from that for weeks. This way it can be fought or not and the consequences are real to the factions.

It's just an idea but it is expandable and I think it may work.
If I'm missing the point of Lotr please enlighten me as I was trying to get the gist before my comp failed but was only getting bits and pieces
Either way I do look forward to seeing the next game.

[ULC]

The point of LotR is to create dynamic IC interaction. Creating multiple "playable" factions, while braoding possibilities, reduces this because players from one faction will be far more interested in fighting everyone else then themselves because of the threat level - remove the horrible AI and replace it with a human, and you create a greater threat. Make external threats weak, and everyone turns inward. Human nature at it's finest.

In summary, the larger game lacks the IC tension that the smaller game does.