Civilization vs Total War

[seireikhaan]

I'm your classic micromanager (in Empire midgames I've been known to take an hour to play one turn) but even Civ is a bit too much. Usually I just end up setting my workers on auto and then cringing as I watch what they do.

Not for me. For me, the comparison depends on what games we're talking about. MTW and Civ IV are very, very close for me, probably a tie. Civ IV easily beats RTW and M2, as I no longer found the battles to be any fun. My views on Empire are still rather incomplete.

And btw, I AM an accounting student for a reason... I want control over every single worker in Civ...

[gollum]

Some cannot stand anyone being unacccounted for...

[seireikhaan]

Some cannot stand anyone being unacccounted for...

Darn right! I'm just glad that Civ IV is a bit more macro than Civ III. Those old civ III: complete games took forever...

[gollum]

Vanity of vanities, everything is vanity

[gollum]

Originally posted by Durango
For someone who didn't like Rome in its vanilla state, is EB worth a try? What are its greatest changes and merits in your opinion?

Yes and no. The mod has many features that are perceived as pluses by certain people and as minuses by certain other people.

For example its true that its richly detailed and immersive, yet also of cumbersome slow pace, but these are the two sides of the same coin.

In the end you really have to try for yourself and see.

[ShadesWolf]

Civ was one of the first game i really got into back in the 80/90's.

I have always loved the game and the later versions. Some of sids games are my all time favourite, Pirates and Colonization spring to mind :)

However, I must say that no series of games can come anywhere close to the TW collection. I have one small fault with them though, its you have no control over where the cities are sited. This for me is a nice feature and is a very minor drawback with TW.

but apart from that TW all the way

[Mediteran]

yeah it would be nice if you could colonize in tw!

as for me, i only play tw games nowadays

[Pannonian]

I'd like to see the social engineering concept in SMAC present in more games. The switch between different societies was such an integral part of the gameplay, and the choices made it enjoyably flexible, as well as suggesting such a detailed background that inspired so many great fanfics. The unit workshop was nice too, although MOO2 did it better. Speaking of MOO2, I liked the faction attributes that started every game, and the hireable merc leaders.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Not for me. For me, the comparison depends on what games we're talking about. MTW and Civ IV are very, very close for me, probably a tie. Civ IV easily beats RTW and M2, as I no longer found the battles to be any fun. My views on Empire are still rather incomplete.

What about EB? Have you tried it? You should, it is obviously free, so you have nothing to lose but your chains...ermh, sorry, that was my inner Lenin speaking in me. What I mean to say was that you have nothing but a bit of your time to lose to try out EB.

[gollum]

Yeah, EB fans qualify as communists in mentality at least...

[seireikhaan]

What about EB? Have you tried it? You should, it is obviously free, so you have nothing to lose but your chains...ermh, sorry, that was my inner Lenin speaking in me. What I mean to say was that you have nothing but a bit of your time to lose to try out EB.

Yes, I did give it a brief stint. However, it came back to the same thing- I simply couldn't lose battles, period. Plus, the AI is still so nonsensical on the strategic level its baffling. This is not the fault of the EB team at all- I commend them for doing so much with so little and having such commitment to a project of which they do not charge money. Fact is, the core of Rome was totally rotten for me- just not enough to work with to make a game I could enjoy.

[gollum]

Originally posted by Shinseikhan
Yes, I did give it a brief stint. However, it came back to the same thing- I simply couldn't lose battles, period.

Thats because EB balance on the battlefield wasnt made for this purpose. RTW in fact is not completely beyond redemption even from a MTW perspective in SP. However i agree with you the game is far far inferior from the first two incarnations.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Yes, I did give it a brief stint. However, it came back to the same thing- I simply couldn't lose battles, period. Plus, the AI is still so nonsensical on the strategic level its baffling. This is not the fault of the EB team at all- I commend them for doing so much with so little and having such commitment to a project of which they do not charge money. Fact is, the core of Rome was totally rotten for me- just not enough to work with to make a game I could enjoy.

Heh. You sound just like me when I am critiquing M2TW or ETW. RTW is my favourite however.

[Axalon]

Ever since some freaking stone-age boy defeated my aircraft-carrier (or was it battleship?) I stopped playing the game that instant. I have never played Civilization since after that incident (this was Civ. 1 or 2 mind you - it matters little to me). I am just unable to take any of it seriously after that little miracle. I just cant....

It's as serious as Tom & Jerry being presidents of China or calling yourself "Darth hamburger" or something of the like that... So, for me there is nothing to discuss in regards to the stipultated topic of this thread. To me, Civilization have always been just a lot of Mickey-mouse after that event.


- Cheers
----------
I did however have great time with Alfa-Centauri thou, which is essentially
is the same thing in concept.

[Beefy187]

Ever since some freaking stone-age boy defeated my aircraft-carrier (or was it battleship?) I stopped playing the game that instant. I have never played Civilization since after that incident (this was Civ. 1 or 2 mind you - it matters little to me). I am just unable to take any of it seriously after that little miracle. I just cant....

It's as serious as Tom & Jerry being presidents of China or calling yourself "Darth hamburger" or something of the like that... So, for me there is nothing to discuss in regards to the stipultated topic of this thread. To me, Civilization have always been just a lot of Mickey-mouse after that event.


- Cheers
----------
I did however have great time with Alfa-Centauri thou, which is essentially
is the same thing in concept.

I would bet for the Stone Age boy if he gets on the Air Craft carrier for rampage.

I never played Civ 1 or 2 but I'm guessing land units gets bonus against navy if they are right next to each other.

In Civ IV you don't get to attack navy with the land force so don't worry

[Axalon]

Hehehe.... Well, when Tom & Jerry assume the presidency of China I'll be playing Civ IV. and pray to Lassie the dog that "stone age-boy" will leave my carriers alone. Or whenever I decide to call myself "Darth hamburger" around here, whatever comes first man, whatever comes first....

[Aemilius Paulus]

Ever since some freaking stone-age boy defeated my aircraft-carrier (or was it battleship?) I stopped playing the game that instant. I have never played Civilization since after that incident (this was Civ. 1 or 2 mind you - it matters little to me). I am just unable to take any of it seriously after that little miracle. I just cant....

Yeah, they fixed that issue with the ancient units being able to defeat modern units in Civilization IV. Still, even with that glitch, I liked the Civilization games. That is what made them unique, was that provided you were smart enough, you could win with a weaker army, provided enough defensive bonuses pile up.

[mlc82]

Yes, I did give it a brief stint. However, it came back to the same thing- I simply couldn't lose battles, period. Plus, the AI is still so nonsensical on the strategic level its baffling. This is not the fault of the EB team at all- I commend them for doing so much with so little and having such commitment to a project of which they do not charge money. Fact is, the core of Rome was totally rotten for me- just not enough to work with to make a game I could enjoy.

A few things:

If you happen to have RTW Alexander laying around, the "Alex" mods for EB improve the AI a LOT! It can still be pretty stupid at times, but nowhere near it's usual level, and has at times given me battles that felt like playing Medieval 1 again.

2. Try out the "Darth Formations" minimod for EB. In my experience it helps the AI maintain their formation at least until contact in battle, instead of tending to attack piecemeal. The EB formations do this decently as well, but from my experience the Darth formations make it even tighter.

3. EB is a must-roleplay kind of mod. There are hordes of threads about this on the EB board, and it REALLY makes a big difference in the fun factor, along with providing some challenge vs the lackluster AI that feels a little less like deliberately handicapping yourself. Things such as low-end generals can only lead a single legion (as Rome of course, and there is a breakdown on the EB forum as well of what units a single roman legion should consist of, it's nowhere near a full stack). I've even worked on a set of rules for an "extended general cam" mode, just haven't posted or put them in practice yet, but trying to make EB play a little more like the "Take Command" tactical games, though you'd need some serious self discipline to stick to it!

[seireikhaan]

A few things:

If you happen to have RTW Alexander laying around, the "Alex" mods for EB improve the AI a LOT! It can still be pretty stupid at times, but nowhere near it's usual level, and has at times given me battles that felt like playing Medieval 1 again.

2. Try out the "Darth Formations" minimod for EB. In my experience it helps the AI maintain their formation at least until contact in battle, instead of tending to attack piecemeal. The EB formations do this decently as well, but from my experience the Darth formations make it even tighter.

3. EB is a must-roleplay kind of mod. There are hordes of threads about this on the EB board, and it REALLY makes a big difference in the fun factor, along with providing some challenge vs the lackluster AI that feels a little less like deliberately handicapping yourself. Things such as low-end generals can only lead a single legion (as Rome of course, and there is a breakdown on the EB forum as well of what units a single roman legion should consist of, it's nowhere near a full stack). I've even worked on a set of rules for an "extended general cam" mode, just haven't posted or put them in practice yet, but trying to make EB play a little more like the "Take Command" tactical games, though you'd need some serious self discipline to stick to it!

1. No, I never got the Alexander expansion. Only BI.

2. Never heard of that particular mini-mod, but the "piecemeal" attacking was not my top concern. My top concern is the fact that the AI runs itself to death going around in circles whenever I'm attacking, and defending is so easy it wouldn't matter if they did or didn't either way. Fighting fatigued troops with fresh ones every single battle got ridiculous.

3. That, unfortunately, is just not my kind of thing. I don't get much satisfaction from a war game by role playing it. I do not get attached to my generals or emissaries or any of the such. For me, they are simply tools. That's just the kind of person I am when it comes to games.

Again, I commend the effort put forth by the EB team; I simply can't imagine how much research, development, testing, and creativity it takes to make such a mod. However, the restrictions put in place by the Rome engine simply make it impossible for me to enjoy the game. Equally a pity is the fact that the time period really is quite interesting.

[White_eyes:D]

I AM an accounting student for a reason...

Funny....I am too and Civilization 2...back in the day...I think it was 1998? or was it 1999? was my favorite game....problem because back then, I had never played such a complex game....Now days..(Civilization 4) after finishing said accounting courses...I feel something is wrong if there is no money-crunching

Overall, I love both games about the same....Total war series, is more battles with nice grapichics...Civilization games are more about tech races and LONG-term managing.....(I think I had one game on there, toke me about....one year to finish.... yeah...should have set that map to a large land mass...rather then a whole bunch of Islands....takes a lot longer to win if you let the Island Nations build up on World Domination...)

[Aemilius Paulus]

Hmmm, so no one cares about Mount and Blade, huh? Well, from what I observed, great amounts of people here play EU-type games (Europa Universalis, no the other EU, for all you smartasses). How about comparing EU and TW?

[johnhughthom]

Hmmm, so no one cares about Mount and Blade, huh?

Check out the Arena, there is a 50 odd page thread on Mount & Blade.