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Thread: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

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    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    I remember reading a Hornblower novel where his ship was being attacked by three Xebec's full of Barbary Pirates, so when Morocco began preying on my trade lanes with Europe I was curious to see just how well CA had recreated the imagery of these small oared galleys.

    The fleet I sent to deal with the Moroccan's was a bit of a weird mixture. My admiral was sailing in a 5th Rate Frigate, I had built two Brigs in anticipation that galleys might not function in the Altantic and I had a galley and three light galleys.

    As it happens I could have stuck with galleys as I managed to lured the Moroccan fleet back into the Mediterranean by blockading their newly acquired port in Algiers. The worrying thing being that their entire fleet turned up rather than just one of their squadrons and it looked pretty impressive.

    The deployment phase posed an interesting problem, as half my fleet were galleys with forward firing cannon, whilst the other half were sailing ships with broadside cannon. Clearly we could not all sail in the same direction and still be able to fire. In the end I split my fleet into two squadrons. The galleys formed one squadron which was deploy in line abreast so that they could all fire in the direction they were moving. The sailing vessels in the other other squadron were formed in line astern as is traditional to allow all the guns to bear as they pass the enemy.

    However, at that stage it still seemed awkward and I had no idea how co-ordinate the movement of the two squadrons without obvious conflicts of purpose. Nevertheless the die were cast and I had not been given the option to withdraw so it was all or nothing.

    So, I clicked the button to end my deployment.

    What greeted me as the battle started was like a gift form the god. The AI had chosen rather stupidly to deploy all its light galleys (8 of them) in line astern, led by their Admirals barge and the long string of boats was heading straight into the mouths of my four galleys deployed in line abreast across their path. Deployed thus they would sail into cannon range one vessel at a time and each face the fire of my four boats.

    I decided then how to use my sailing ships, for the obvious thing to do was wait until the enemy galleys had come withn range of mine and then sail down the length of their line (where they had no guns) and blast them with concentrated broadsides.

    If they turned to try and bring their guns to bear on my sailing ships then they would present their sides to the galleys, whilst firing at the galleys would leave them unable to reply to my broadsides.

    Well the plan worked perfectly. The enemy Admiral rowed smartly into range of my galleys leading his fleet like a line of little duckings to the slaughter. Practically, the first volley of cannon saw his galley explode in a in a casade of driftwood and the second and third faired little better and they tried to engage my fleet.

    Meanwhile my sailing squadron glided smartly past the my line of galleys and moving slowly down the column of enemy ships blasted them apart in quick succession. One enemy galley captain did make a brave attempt to grapple and board one of the brigs but a broadside from my flagship persuaded him to strike his colours instead.

    By the time the enemy reinforcements arrived their main force was already just a collection of matchwood and bodies and they quickly struck their colours after a couple of broadsides.

    Herioc Victory - Go Navy.

    Must admit the visuals for the naval battles are very good, especially the galley, if only the ships would keep moving without constantly being given new waypoints. But thats a minor issue.
    Last edited by Didz; 03-25-2009 at 08:25.
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  2. #2
    Undercover Lurker Member Mailman653's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    No screens if your victory?

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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Wow nice story Didz! Thanks for sharing in your Heroic naval victory!
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    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Very impressive Admiral Horatio Didz.
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    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Mailman653 View Post
    No screens if your victory?
    No! as I was writing the opening post I realised I'd forgotten to take screenies. But it was too late.

    BTW: I'm assuming they work the same as previous versions, just press 'Print Screen' and then convert to .jpeg?
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    Village special needs person Member Kobal2fr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    Must admit the visuals for the naval battles are very good, especially the galley, if only the ships would keep moving without constantly being given new waypoints. But thats a minor issue.
    You can get them to do it. See those arrows going left and right that are used for course correction and spinning in place ? Between them is a forward arrow, atop the sail icon. Click that, and your ship will immediately stop turning and keep going straight ahead until you give it a new order.

    Anyway, great story. And yeah, the AI sadly always deploys its galleys like they were regular ships.

    I wonder if the Ottomans can build real Xebecs though. I've seen pirates using them and they're really deadly - they're very low on the water so they're hard to hit, and can fire right at a ship's waterline, esp. when boarding or being boarded. I fear them almost as much as I do Fluyts.
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    Member Member crpcarrot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    nice one Didz sad thing is the Ai used the same tactic with all its galley navies.

    the battle would be so much harder if the AI used its 14 galleys in a line or 2 lines at the moent it can only ever get the first 3-4 ships within firing range and if u disbale the fist ship the rest do not move till that ship is either blown up or routs.

    but back on topic i also use at least 5 galleys in my fleets their heavy cannons seem to do more damage and miss less against bigger ships.
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    Member Member Grumfoss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Nice battle Didz, I do love my naval battles, when they go right they are spectacular, but when they go wrong they can be a nightmare.
    The AI does need a bit of tweaking to take into consideration that the galleys guns all fire forward, hopefully that will be corrected at a later date
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    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobal2fr View Post
    You can get them to do it. See those arrows going left and right that are used for course correction and spinning in place ? Between them is a forward arrow, atop the sail icon. Click that, and your ship will immediately stop turning and keep going straight ahead until you give it a new order.
    Ah! thanks I'll use that next time, then it will play a bit more like Age of Sail.
    Quote Originally Posted by crpcarrot View Post
    but back on topic i also use at least 5 galleys in my fleets their heavy cannons seem to do more damage and miss less against bigger ships.
    Yes, I noticed on the unit stats that Light Galleys have a firepower of 256 compared to a Brig's 76, so presumably much heavier cannon.

    I've just given all mine Flintlocks too, so they will fire even faster

    Literally, a lot more bang for your buck.
    Last edited by Didz; 03-25-2009 at 13:53.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobal2fr View Post
    I wonder if the Ottomans can build real Xebecs though. I've seen pirates using them and they're really deadly - they're very low on the water so they're hard to hit, and can fire right at a ship's waterline, esp. when boarding or being boarded. I fear them almost as much as I do Fluyts.
    Yes they do get them, but they are garbage. Slow reload, weak broadside, and blow up a lot. I'm not sure if they actually do, but their unit card also says they have a hull strength of 0.
    I shouldn't have to live in a world where all the good points are horrible ones.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Thats the problem with these mediterranean ships, one good broadside from any ship of the line and they're done. What good is 256 firepower if you only get to shoot once? I've fought plenty of galley fleets in my game (as everyone knows, every time you want to go to the mediterranean you always have to declare war on Morrocco lol), and every time, as each ship came into range, it either exploded or surrendered on the spot and sank. Yes, being low in the water makes them a little harder to hit, but since they're so low most hull hits are at or below the water line.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    Yes, I noticed on the unit stats that Light Galleys have a firepower of 256 compared to a Brig's 76, so presumably much heavier cannon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards View Post
    I'm not sure if they actually do, but their unit card also says they have a hull strength of 0.
    These are almost certainly bugs.

    The in-campaign and in-battle unit card stats are different. In a battle, Galleys have 0 Firepower and 1477 Hull Strength. In campaign, they have 256 Firepower and 0 Hull Strength.

    They can also be incredibly hit-or-miss. A few galleys can KO an AF, 5th Rate with one volley. Or they can blow up at close range like suicide bombers and take down your ship with them. At other times they blow up at a safe distance away.

    In any case, CA needs to fix naval unit card stats ASAP and re-examine galley balance. After all, both their unit cards say they mount, "light cannons."

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Miracle View Post
    In any case, CA needs to fix naval unit card stats ASAP and re-examine galley balance. After all, both their unit cards say they mount, "light cannons."
    256 firepower has to be a typo then. I played with them a bit more last night and from the results there's no way they have 256.

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    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Just for the record, the AI does sometimes deploy its galleys in line abreast. It actually did it yesterday when I landed troops and seized the port of Algiers. The two light galleys forced to try and run my blockade as a consequence actually appeared in line abreast not line astern.
    Didz
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    Just for the record, the AI does sometimes deploy its galleys in line abreast. It actually did it yesterday when I landed troops and seized the port of Algiers. The two light galleys forced to try and run my blockade as a consequence actually appeared in line abreast not line astern.
    Sometimes when you're sailing down their line they'll change from line astern to line abreast.

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    Member Member crpcarrot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    Just for the record, the AI does sometimes deploy its galleys in line abreast. It actually did it yesterday when I landed troops and seized the port of Algiers. The two light galleys forced to try and run my blockade as a consequence actually appeared in line abreast not line astern.
    oh thats cool :) ive been thinking if its somehting to do with who is attacking cos as far as i can remeber its always the AI attacking me.

    wait a minute u mean the AI landing troops!! so i cant leave all those port cities unguarded now? :P

    well with regard to galleys being usless i guess the AI doesnt use them to its advantage so they appear useless. the ability of the galley to be independatn of wind directions and highly menouverable is real advantage if used properly. of course this need a alot of micro managing and pausing
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    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by crpcarrot View Post
    wait a minute u mean the AI landing troops!! so i cant leave all those port cities unguarded now? :P
    The AI most certainly does land troops from its fleets, I've watched it do it on a number of occassions. In fact, it was watching the AI do it that led me to grab the opportunty to copy it and seize its port in Algiers. It also works beautifully as a strategy for confounding the French in the Road to Independance campaign, a sloop with a unit of Rangers aboard can have them running up and down the coast instead of defending their target cities.
    Quote Originally Posted by crpcarrot View Post
    well with regard to galleys being usless i guess the AI doesnt use them to its advantage so they appear useless. the ability of the galley to be independatn of wind directions and highly menouverable is real advantage if used properly. of course this need a alot of micro managing and pausing
    Well I'm not labelling galley's useless at at all, at least not yet. As you say there are advantages associated with being independant of the wind, the only factors which I'm not sure are modelled properly are the oared vessels ability to a) reverse (back water) and b) the inability of a sail ship to stop (heave to). Sailing ships can certainly heave to, but they can't stop, as soon as the pressure is released from their sails they begin to broach (turn into wind) and drift leeward (get blown downwind due to the pressure of the wind on their high sides. The only way to stop this is to anchor, which isn't possible in deep water, and even then the ship will swing on its anchor so that it is downwind and facing into wind from the anchor point. Bomb ketches who needed to be fixed in position to use their weapons actually deployed four anchors and a complex pulley system to keep them in place against the pressure of wind and tide. Galleys on the other hand have the ability to use their oars both as a sea anchor to hold them stationery, and as an adjustment device for maintaining position and turning on the spot if necessary.

    Then of course there is the old problem of being becalmed which sailing ships have no real counter to and galleys actually prefer.
    Last edited by Didz; 03-27-2009 at 11:41.
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    Village special needs person Member Kobal2fr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    Well I'm not labelling galley's useless at at all, at least not yet. As you say there are advantages associated with being independant of the wind, the only factors which I'm not sure are modelled properly are the oared vessels ability to a) reverse (back water) and b) the inability of a sail ship to stop (heave to). Sailing ships can certainly heave to, but they can't stop, as soon as the pressure is released from their sails they begin to broach (turn into wind) and drift leeward (get blown downwind due to the pressure of the wind on their high sides. The only way to stop this is to anchor, which isn't possible in deep water, and even then the ship will swing on its anchor so that it is downwind and facing into wind from the anchor point. Bomb ketches who needed to be fixed in position to use their weapons actually deployed four anchors and a complex pulley system to keep them in place against the pressure of wind and tide. Galleys on the other hand have the ability to use their oars both as a sea anchor to hold them stationery, and as an adjustment device for maintaining position and turning on the spot if necessary.

    Then of course there is the old problem of being becalmed which sailing ships have no real counter to and galleys actually prefer.
    I'm afraid that's a no on both counts. Galleys & steamships can't back water (or at least, I haven't found the way), I don't think they heave to any faster than regular boats ; and sailing ships certainly can stop and stay in one spot forever, neverminding winds, currents or water depth. Hell, they can even pivot on said spot. I dare anyone to do that with anything floating :).
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  19. #19
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Thats what I figured, so galley's lose out on both counts as far as ETW is concerned.
    Didz
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    Member Member anweRU's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ottoman Navy - love those galleys

    Off-topic but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobal2fr View Post
    Hell, they can even pivot on said spot. I dare anyone to do that with anything floating :).
    Give me any modern cruise ship, large cargo ship or tanker, or luxury yacht, and I'll happily do it for you. Most have side ways water-jets to help maneuver in tight spots. Some of the newest ships don't even have the traditional propeller on shaft arrangement, but electrical motors driving the propellers directly, and they are mounted on pylons under the ship. They can rotate sideways for a certain range of angles - don't know exactly how much.
    Last edited by anweRU; 03-27-2009 at 16:59.
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