Playing as a Muslim Faction

**caravel** · 03-29-2009, 01:49

Originally Posted by gollum

(other than for Futuwas that I am not particularly fond of due to their abominal defence).

On the other hand I love Futuwwa, but they have to be combined with Saracens and TF. I've lost count of how many times Futuwwa units have saved the day with a timely flank charge. Unlike Ghazi infantry Futuwwa have a bow which makes them much more useful. I also find a use for Ottoman Infantry believe it or not.

**gollum** · 03-29-2009, 01:54

I love Ottoman infantry too. Not only they are easily available and cheap - but they have an armor piercing attack - the perfect cheap hybrid for late. The reason i dislike Futuwas is the same reason i dislike Nizaris - they take a lot of casualties from missiles and in the melee. They win you battles but you need a new stack to continue the campaign. However as the Egyptians there is no alternative - but not to worry, the Egyptians can train arbalasters

**caravel** · 03-29-2009, 02:12

Futuwwa often charge without orders, as with Ghazi, and this can be quite devastating. I totally agree with your criticisms of them, i.e. their poor defence etc, but I enjoy trying to utilise units that have specific strengths and weaknesses. The trick with Futuwwa is to deploy them so that rhe enemy are focusing their missile fire on your better armoured units (Saracens and Turcoman foot). So the Futuwwa should be bringing up the rear.

The big difference between JA and these others is the elite status. This means you won't see them running along with the non elite units. IIRC there is no other elite pure missile foot unit?

Nizari are like souped up Ghazi with bows - minus the AP bonus. The problem there is the defence, as with Ghazi it's extremely poor. Even Futtuwa have better defence, which makes them more useful if they get stuck in melee.

**gollum** · 03-29-2009, 02:18

Indeed. Futuwas are the archetypical flanker unit, fast, lightly armored, with great attack, good morale and low defence. They are good for hammering anviled battle lines as you say, as well as taking advantage of high angles of attack by virtue of their high morale that enables them to travel away from the main army in smaller groups. The fact that they have bows, just makes them even more deadly and flexible.

**caravel** · 03-29-2009, 20:08

I rate Futuwwa above Ottoman Infantry. OI have shocking morale and can let you down badly. Poor Morale is fine for a unit like TF, because you would only deploy them in Melee against broken or routing units anyway, but with those axes, OI are asking to be sent in as flankers - but their morale combined with their poor charge and morale stats, make them worse than Futuwwa IMHO.

And congratulations on your promotion to member AlexandersForlornHope.

**gollum** · 03-29-2009, 22:16

Indeed - however the AP bonus shines if you include OI in stacks led by a good general. They also can be built more easily allowing to replenish stacks while advancing in enemy territory to complement xbows.

Congratulations AlexandersForlornHope.

**Roark** · 03-30-2009, 01:53

Originally Posted by Caravel

Nizari are like souped up Ghazi with bows - minus the AP bonus. The problem there is the defence, as with Ghazi it's extremely poor. Even Futtuwa have better defence, which makes them more useful if they get stuck in melee.

I think that, given the Nizaris' cost, high speed, charge and attack, it would be a crime to use them as anything BUT a shooting flanker.

No unit in the same class does it better, though.

**caravel** · 03-30-2009, 08:34

Originally Posted by Roark

I think that, given the Nizaris' cost, high speed, charge and attack, it would be a crime to use them as anything BUT a shooting flanker.

No unit in the same class does it better, though.

Exactly. Which is why they have been hamstringed defensively. If Nizari had decent defence, they're be extremely overpowered.

**gollum** · 03-30-2009, 18:20

Well not extremely, they d be a kind of Warrior Monk (as they were) - units that are lightly armored can always be shot and resisted by high armor/defence units. But i agree - they are better as they are

**bondovic** · 03-30-2009, 22:16

Originally Posted by gollum

Well not extremely, they d be a kind of Warrior Monk (as they were) - units that are lightly armored can always be shot and resisted by high armor/defence units. But i agree - they are better as they are

The point is that if they were better defensively they'd be anti-line as well and you'd have to slap them with nothing but the elite of the elite of your roster. It's this dual role capability that would make them overpowered. If the intended use for them is shooting flankers you have to reflect the exaggerated attack stats of theirs with lower defensive ones. This makes them harder to use, but more streamlined for the intended role.