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Thread: Grand tactic's in operation

  1. #1
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Grand tactic's in operation

    Zombiefriednuts started a thread on 'Tactic's you wouldn't normally think of' which led to a debate on the application of historical tactic's in ETW. So, I thought it would be interesting to look at how we are actually employing these tactic's in our battles.

    Ordre Mixte [Mixed Order]
    This tactical arrangment was introduced during the Napoleonic wars to try and retain the firepower available from the infantry line with the assault potential of the column. I've been using this tactic regularly in my Ottoman Army as it lends itself nicely to the mix of sword armed Jannisaries and musket armed line units.

    This is my army deployed ready for battle. Notice that each of the musket armed battalions is supported behind each flank by a Jannissary column. The French would have referred to each of the three battalion groups as a Demi Brigade, and the two Demi-Brigades as a Division.


    Note: That by grouping the entire army into a single group I can ensure that this formation is maintained for as long as I consider it appropriate. So, as you can see below I can decide where I want the Division to move to and see where each of its component units will end up.

    Its best to do this with the game paused as it can take some to to get the placement just how you want it. But once you are happy just release the 'Pause' and each unit will path to its new position and facing thus retaining the integrity of the overall formation.

    Once battle has been joined individual components of the formation can be given specific orders, and if necessary the formation itself can be broken down and seperate groups split off to perform specific tasks.

    Here you see that the two Jannissary columns from the left hand Demi-Brigade have been committed to the assault on the building, whilst the line battalion provides supporting fire. At the same time the right-hand Demi-Brigade has been detached as a seperate group and has been swung out of line in order to provide enflidade fire on the town and additional support if the attack needs it.
    Last edited by Didz; 03-28-2009 at 01:20.
    Didz
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    Member Member lugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    Very nice. Thanks for taking time to grab screenies and lay it all out. I'll have to try it out, and move onto a harder setting I think. I've not found much reason to use tactics whatsoever so far.

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    The drunken Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    Nice thread, nice pics and Commentary.

    I really like that CA brought back the importance of tactical formations that STW had (I really felt this was lost in RTW and M2TW).

    Will try out your suggestions! :)
    Duke Surak'nar
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    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    bataillon carré

    I've also been experimenting with the bataillon carré system recently. Though this is proving more difficult to reproduce benefit wise simply because of the turn-based system of movement on the campaign map and the way the AI reacts.

    There is at least one advantages to dividing you army up into four seperate but mutually supporting groups and that is that it increases the intercept footprint of your army. The problem is that the AI hates walking into your intercept zones so normally all this achieves is to force the AI to take a longer route around the fringe of your forces.

    The result is that whilst I've been deploying my armies in bataillon carré I haven't actually been able to persuade the AI to trigger one to see if it works as intended. The best I've managed to do so far is deliberately attack a Russian army in bataillon carré formation just to make sure that the principle of mutual support works within the game.

    So, the following screenshots are a bit contrived but at least show that it should work in principle.

    Here you see my four armies on the map and the hapless Russian unit I decided to pick on to test the theory. These four armies were in a square formation, but I actually had to stop the leading army (the one now in the middle of the back three) short so as to avoid triggering the Russian Armies intercept reaction too early and so the two armies which did for the left and right flanks are now level with it and appear in line. I then moved the army from the rear (the one withn general) through the middle to trigger the Russian intercept reaction.

    As you can see the result was what was sought.

    The interception by the Russian Army of my leading force, has instantly triggered the support of the other three armies in the formation. So, in theory the same reaction would have occurred if the Russian army had attacked any one of my four armies during its turn.

    The implication being that one can increase the intercept footprint of a force by about a factor of four and still fight any battles that arise with at least 75% of your total strength.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

  5. #5

    Cool Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    So you are saying that if you overlap interception circles of smaller armies you can cover a much larger area. Very good! You could cover a risky border like this with 3-5 stack armies and seal off a border. Put a few in a fort at the front and have a very strong defense.

    _________Border__________Border___________Border___________

    Army Army Army Army Army

    Army Army Army Army
    "You are only alive because Jack Bauer does not know who you are"

  6. #6

    Default Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    OK, that dis not format quite the way I typed it but I hope you can get the drift.
    "You are only alive because Jack Bauer does not know who you are"

  7. #7
    Gognard Member MikeV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ordre Mixte [Mixed Order]

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    Once battle has been joined individual components of the formation can be given specific orders, and if necessary the formation itself can be broken down and seperate groups split off to perform specific tasks.
    Excellent presentation, very clear. Thanks!

    Do you have any suggestions for how to maneuver the assault columns through/past the firing line?
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    Gognard Member MikeV's Avatar
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    Default Re: bataillon carré

    Quote Originally Posted by Didz View Post
    There is at least one advantages to dividing you army up into four seperate but mutually supporting groups and that is that it increases the intercept footprint of your army. The problem is that the AI hates walking into your intercept zones so normally all this achieves is to force the AI to take a longer route around the fringe of your forces.
    ...
    The interception by the Russian Army of my leading force, has instantly triggered the support of the other three armies in the formation. So, in theory the same reaction would have occurred if the Russian army had attacked any one of my four armies during its turn.
    Excellent! A most useful aspect of the land-based intercept zones.

    Is the following a bug, or a feature? The 1st stack you move, the opposing force's intercept zone shows red. If you stop that stack just outside the zone, then move up another, the same zone is now shown mostly orange, and you can move into it without triggering a reaction.

    Is there some kind of influence map calculation/highlighting going on here? Or is it just that the opfor doesn't react because it thinks its outnumbered?
    Forums are good for sharing questions, wikis are good for sharing answers:
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  9. #9
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    Quote Originally Posted by JRCDave View Post
    So you are saying that if you overlap interception circles of smaller armies you can cover a much larger area. Very good! You could cover a risky border like this with 3-5 stack armies and seal off a border. Put a few in a fort at the front and have a very strong defense.
    Yep! thats about it.

    Or to use it for the purpose Napoleon intended it to be used for, but placing four armies in a mutually supporting square formation, so that each army is within the reaction zone of the other three, then they create a bigger interception zone and no mater which direction they are attacked from all four should turn up to fight the battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeV View Post
    Is the following a bug, or a feature? The 1st stack you move, the opposing force's intercept zone shows red. If you stop that stack just outside the zone, then move up another, the same zone is now shown mostly orange, and you can move into it without triggering a reaction.

    Is there some kind of influence map calculation/highlighting going on here? Or is it just that the opfor doesn't react because it thinks its outnumbered?
    I'm not sure I sort of dismissed it as a product of having a Red Enemy Intercept zone overlaid by a Yellow Friendly Reinforcement Zone. It didn't seem to affect the behaviour of the enemy unit.
    Last edited by Didz; 03-28-2009 at 10:00.
    Didz
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  10. #10
    Guest Dayve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grand tactic's in operation

    I find the AI reacts identically no matter how you lay out your forces, and so i use the exact same tactic for every battle. A long line of muskets, with an identical long line of muskets behind it, and more muskets to the right and left of the line but not on the flanks. The AI will engage your front line and send 1 or 2 units around to "flank" you, at which point you drag units from the second line out to deal with them and then put them back when they are dealt with.

    If a front line unit takes lots of casualties, you withdraw them and bring up a full one.

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