Selling Military access and gaining much money

[mcpa]

During the first turn (playing as Sweden) I could sell Military Acesss to my lands
for 20 rounds for about 1900 florins to basically every state in Europe! Even to the knights of St.John (or what they are called)! Had around 50-60k after dealing with all the major/minor states in Europe.
The first turn.

It reminds a little bit about the "selling MAP information" in MTW2.

It is not realistic for small states to buy Military Access to Swedens land plus if they are soo far away on the campaing map that they cannot make there in, well, 20 turns!

[Dayve]

So let me get this right... You're exploiting the games diplomacy mechanism, and then complaining that it worked in your favour?

You know Stan from South Park, when somebody says something stupid and he puts his head down and pinches the bridge of his nose?

Yeah, i did that when i read that post.

[antisocialmunky]

Yes, Mr. Troll because exploits can be easily found by siting around and not playing the game rather than stumbling into it and then playing with it.

But yeah, there's alot of crap about minor factions like them sitting around with more military power than most of Europe etc etc etc...

[lugh]

Dayve: I'd imagine that the point would be that this exploit, just like the massively major bugs, CTD issues, and AI problems shouldn't really be shipping with a "finished" product. Even a small amount of playtesting would have revealed a lot of the glaring issues that have emerged.

[Ardri]

Well, lucky for us ETW is a PC game that can be easily patched via Steam. While it is not the best game (some would even argue it is not a good game), there is at least hope it will be.

[lugh]

Well, lucky for us ETW is a PC game that can be easily patched via Steam. While it is not the best game (some would even argue it is not a good game), there is at least hope it will be.

That's the problem. Without Steam they wouldn't have dared ship it in this state. It's only because it's easily patchable and that I can expect it to be eventually working smoothly that I don't mind the bugs and CTDs all that much.

[Beskar]

Did you know you can get all the one state factions to be protectorates by giving them military access to your land, even though they get that anyway if they become your protectorate?

Did you know you can buy 5turn military access then just put units at their capital and take it without much resistance?


There are glitches/face slapping manovuers you can do in the game. The real challenge is playing the game without the temptation to do these things.

Though, some of these "glitches" reminds me a lot of Oblivion:Elder Scrolls. In the game, there was a fast travel mode, so you can go to a explored area in next to no time. The downside is, you miss lots of opportunities to explore and get treasure. However, the official forums of the game had tons and tons of whine posts because of this feature. "This feature is stupid, it takes away from the game" blah blah. The irony is, no one was forcing them to use the feature, but they did so anyway and complain about it.

In short - stop whining about things that are not broken and if you don't like you can do that, just do not do it, that simple. Are you the same kind of person who complains and whines you can do the add_money console command in Rome: Total War campaign yet you keep using it regardless? It's the same thing.

[antisocialmunky]

That's not really a glitch, its a reasonable oversight if you think about it because it isn't an obvious one and won't screw with you unless you intend to use it. I rather they fix ctds than go after something silly like this.

[Dayve]

You're all wrong. Just because something is exploitable, doesn't mean it is unfinished or broken, it means somebody is exploiting it. Please let me explain my point with an analogy.

In Britain we have a system called the DLA, or disability living allowance, where people who are unable to work for physical or mental reasons recieve money from the government so that they can live and pay people to help them do the things they cannot do.

People exploit this system by faking back injuries or other illnesses so that they don't have to work and get free money.

If i exploited this system for 10 years, got caught, fined and jailed, would i then be able to complain that the system was broken because i was able to exploit it?

Nope. You exploited the game mechanics, and you have no right to complain about something that would not have occured if you had not made it happen yourself.

This game is absolutely full of bugs, i know this, we all know this, but this is not a bug, it's an exploit of the game mechanics.

[Dead Guy]

Good game mechanichs aren't exploitable to this degree in the first place.

[Beskar]

Davye... not everyone in the thread is wrong, especially as I just said basically what you said.

No, it isn't like the DLA, as that is illegal and obviously wrong. It's pretty much allowing people to pay to see your house then complain you can get money by charging people to see your house.

It isn't even much of an exploit, as if the AI mechanics were fixed, doing something like would be a very stupid course of action.

[Dayve]

You have the choice not to do it, just like people had the choice not to buy the game when it came out. If you do exploit it then you have no right to complain that the exploit is there, and if you did buy it then you shouldn't complain about bugs.

I think most of us here have been PC gaming long enough to know how the system works. There are bugs and exploits, it has been that way always and it will always be that way.

Deal with it or buy a 360.

[Beskar]

360 gets patches via xbox live. They actually removed my favourite exploit from a Oblivion that way. Used to be able to kill a man in a certain way, if you do, you can loot money from him infinite times becoming mega rich. Obviously, it isn't a problem as no one is forcing you to keep looting from this person a million times.

[Dayve]

Exactly. I also played Oblivion 12 hours a day for around 6 months, with OOO mod, and still play it even today in the wee hours of the morning when the atmosphere is right, it's a good game, and there were many exploits, like the fast travel exploit where you can instantly warp yourself from 1 end of the world to the other in around 3 seconds, for absolutely no cost whatsoever or penalties.

I was never even tempted to use it, it completely spoiled the game. I enjoyed running for 20 minutes to get to where i wanted to go, and coming close to being eaten or burned by a fireball several times along the way, that was all part of the fun.

However, if i did use the fast travel feature to get to where i wanted to go instantly, i wouldn't go to a forum and say WAAAH I'M BORED BECAUSE I COMPLETED THE GAME IN 10 MINUTES BECAUSE I FAST TRAVELLED EVERYWHERE! GAME IS BROKEN!

[anweRU]

I never thought of selling military access. I've been using it for gaining trade agreements or alliances.

And nope, I'm not complaining about it.

[Beskar]

However, if i did use the fast travel feature to get to where i wanted to go instantly, i wouldn't go to a forum and say WAAAH I'M BORED BECAUSE I COMPLETED THE GAME IN 10 MINUTES BECAUSE I FAST TRAVELLED EVERYWHERE! GAME IS BROKEN!

Haha, unfortunately this happened a lot. But I perfectly agree, it's part of the fun.

Admittedly, I half used it and half-didn't. Sometimes when you are just running backwards and forwards, it was a little annoying, so I just fast travelled, but I enjoyed going on random adventures and coming across these missions I would never would have seen otherwise.

Also the difficulty modifier was absolutely insane. At the very bottom, you flick snot at some one, while at the very top, you just had to run for your life. I remember one game, this was the very first time playing it and I had it the hardest difficulty. I stumbled near where that warrior-monk-priest guy is, who was the leader of the blades and there is a bandit there saying to give him some money or get killed. As I just cleared the dungeon area, I was thinking "He can't be that hard" and oh boy, I was so wrong. What happened was the greatest game of tag I ever seen. After being completely over whelmed, I got the lead on him as he has to keep slowing down to attack, or so it seemed which allowed me to keep ahead. Unfortunately I didn't head towards chorrel either, I sort of just ran into a random direction and it took ages to I found a guard to fight him so he got off me.

Yeah, then people complained the game was too easy when they had it on "flick a bolger and die" setting.

[nafod]

You're all wrong. Just because something is exploitable, doesn't mean it is unfinished or broken, it means somebody is exploiting it. Please let me explain my point with an analogy.

In Britain we have a system called the DLA, or disability living allowance, where people who are unable to work for physical or mental reasons recieve money from the government so that they can live and pay people to help them do the things they cannot do.

People exploit this system by faking back injuries or other illnesses so that they don't have to work and get free money.

If i exploited this system for 10 years, got caught, fined and jailed, would i then be able to complain that the system was broken because i was able to exploit it?

Nope. You exploited the game mechanics, and you have no right to complain about something that would not have occured if you had not made it happen yourself.

This game is absolutely full of bugs, i know this, we all know this, but this is not a bug, it's an exploit of the game mechanics.

Uhm calm down. But if we are into straw man arguments I'd quickly point out that the activity the player conducted didn't involve fraudulently claiming anything.

A more applicable analogy would be if the DLA was set up but didn't actually check for the presence of physical or mental disability before providing benefits. All who applied received the assistance.

So would those who took advantage of this obviously flawed government program then be "exploiting" it? Or those who chose not to merely chumps?

I understand your stance that you don't have to do this, but in light of AI's ineptitude across the board I'd throw this one in the please fix bag.

[nafod]

Exactly. I also played Oblivion 12 hours a day for around 6 months, with OOO mod, and still play it even today in the wee hours of the morning when the atmosphere is right, it's a good game, and there were many exploits, like the fast travel exploit where you can instantly warp yourself from 1 end of the world to the other in around 3 seconds, for absolutely no cost whatsoever or penalties.

I was never even tempted to use it, it completely spoiled the game. I enjoyed running for 20 minutes to get to where i wanted to go, and coming close to being eaten or burned by a fireball several times along the way, that was all part of the fun.

However, if i did use the fast travel feature to get to where i wanted to go instantly, i wouldn't go to a forum and say WAAAH I'M BORED BECAUSE I COMPLETED THE GAME IN 10 MINUTES BECAUSE I FAST TRAVELLED EVERYWHERE! GAME IS BROKEN!

I preferred Francescoes mod myself. However I was one of the Morrowind fans that felt Oblivion paled in comparison to it's much larger and in my opinion, more immersive predecessor.

Oblivion marked the end of my support for Bethesda.

However I do agree with your stance that the fast travel option was merely included. I think the larger gripe wasn't so much that a player could use it or not, but rather that traditional immersive travel option were not included which were present in Morrowind.

That's what killed the immersion, hoof it, ride it or fast travel. No barges or silt striders were present.

Admittedly adding them would be a very mute point. What player would pay to go from the swamps to (correct me if I'm wrong here, but the capital city) Teldrassil, if he could just go to the map for free.

I've seen similar arguments in the Silent Hunter series where the "pros" argue that convoys and enemy shipping are too common. Auto calculating torpedo trajectory is too easy etc. One simply put doesn't have to use it.

Notably when I played oblivion I used fast travel maybe 25% of the time. I enjoyed exploring, but huffing it back and forth was pointless.

Wow this post makes me want to find a copy of Morrowind....

[anweRU]

During the first turn (playing as Sweden) I could sell Military Acesss to my lands
for 20 rounds for about 1900 florins to basically every state in Europe!

Out of curiosity, I started a new campaign as Ottomans on Hard, and tried this trick. I was able to get a cool 5K for each military access. Got enough money to upgrade/build all buildings in every province that turn, and recruit many military units! And I didn't even sell to Russia, Austria, Poland, Georgia, Dagestan and Persia. That would have given me another $30K!

This trick seems to work only in the theater you're capital is in. None of the Indian or American (native or settler) factions bought into this scam.