Question on Ottoman armies

[anweRU]

Oops then. I haven't played the Ottomans yet. I thought they were a form of light cavalry.

Anyway, why call them "Deli Horsemen". Deli = Crazy in Turkish. The names of the Yeni Ceri's are also weird. Cemaat = Community.

[leothtang]

I thought that the Mamluks would be in the game too. They are featured in the unit section of the official web page. They mention them employed by the ottomans. Weirdly, there is no Mamluks in this game....

[Relic]

I thought that the Mamluks would be in the game too. They are featured in the unit section of the official web page. They mention them employed by the ottomans. Weirdly, there is no Mamluks in this game....

I'm pretty sure I've seen them as an Emergant Faction, was it RTI Chapter 3/4?

[Sheogorath]

Oops then. I haven't played the Ottomans yet. I thought they were a form of light cavalry.

Anyway, why call them "Deli Horsemen". Deli = Crazy in Turkish. The names of the Yeni Ceri's are also weird. Cemaat = Community.

I guess by 'cemaat' they were going for something like 'town', perhaps? Trying to imply some kind of...uh...militia Janissary?
Seems rather dumb to me :\

But yeah, there were reports (up until and during the Napoleonic wars) that the Ottomans fielded a variety of cavalry, including what were, essentially, medeivally armored heavy cavalry, with lances and chain mail, or even partial plate in the Eastern style.

While obviously difficult to confirm, as the only reports are from European soldiers and, as we all know, Europeans tend to exaggerate things while overseas, it still seems quite obvious that the Turks would have quite a lot of cavalry and some variety in it.

But then we come back to the lazy unit designer, who probably figured that he'd done enough with the Ottomans by giving them an essentially entirely unique unit roster.

[anweRU]

It is entirely possible that they meant some sort of "militia" Janissary. By 1700 the Janissary had degenerated. With the Devshirme practice ended, the Janissaries began recruiting from local Muslim populations. There were local Janissary units and of course the main force in Istanbul.

I suppose that is what CA was alluding to?

Historical note: The Janissaries were effectively finished as a fighting force with the loss of the slave-soldier status. The Ottomans essentially fought a static front war with the Austrians and later the Russians for well over two centuries, from the early 1600s to the 1800s. So, with the prospect of booty gone, the free men who joined the Janissary regiments would rather stay at home. The musket armed units raised by the Pashas who were the governors of the various districts performed better than most Janissary units at this time.

[Sheogorath]

They may not have been an effective fighting force, but my impression is that they were still pretty picky about how they were employed. Not to mention they apparently compelled every new Sultan to give them a pay raise, meaning that by this time they were all quite rich.

Sort of like European 'gentlemen soldier', I dont think a Janissary would even come close to associating himself with a 'militia'.

The Siphai's were the true loyal soldiers of the Ottoman Empire. I always get a giggle when I hear the phrase, 'Cavalry don't mutiny.'

[anweRU]

Actually, the Sipahi mutinied many times. Probably as often as the Janissaries.

When the Janissaries mutinied, they would overturn their regimental couldron. Hence the idiom "kazan kaldirmak", "to overturn the couldron", in Turkish, which means to mutiny.

When the Sipahi mutinied (on campaign), they could cut the ropes of the commander's (sultan's/ vezir's/ pasha's) tent, and let it fly into the wind.

[Sheogorath]

That's why that phrase makes me giggle :P

Still, the Sipahi took the 'right' side when the Sultan disbanded the Janissary Corps, so they got the whole aura of loyalty and goodness

I guess that's the good part about having two arms of the military that hate each other. Probably why the US hasn't experienced a coup yet.