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Thread: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

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    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    The topic might be considered as not convenient, given what happened a few days ago in the frontroom*. If so, feel free to delete it.

    Anyway, here's the idea. Why should we try to prevent people from comitting suicide? People are supposed to be free, and even free to hurt themselve as long as it doesn't hurt the community.

    Then, why should we try to prevent suicide? Some people make choice, weight the pro and the con and decide that their life is not worth it. Should we deliberately try to convince them that they're doing the wrong choice, even though they might actually be right?

    My father-in-law comitted suicide 4 years ago. He was a really nice man by all standards, and even though we sometimes got mad at each other (which probably mean we had a normal relationship), I really liked him. I would probably never have been as successful studies-wise as I am today without his help as well.
    I was of course really sad when I learnt he ended his life. But who am I to judge him? He had deep monetary issues, was being sued by some former partners because of a job that turned out poorly, had bad relationships with his real son and his parents, etc.

    He made many suicide attempts, driving my mum completely nut (as she was also having her own issues), and he knew that despite the fact he loved us, he was being a real burden to the family, and would be as long as he couldn't solve his issues and find a new job.

    Now, 4 years later, I think he made the good choice. I'm not heartless, I cried when he died, but I mean, it was his choice. Who are we to prevent someone from leaving this place if he can't stand it anymore?

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    There is a difference between allowing and being to allow to. Of course you are allowed to kill yourself but this isn't a legal issue.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    yes, i think we should. and considering most of us helped someone recently fro killing themselves, i think its a very worthwhile thing to do.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 03-31-2009 at 02:07.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    When another person wants to make a choice that will end his or her ability to make any more choices, I think it's legitimate to intervene.

    Examples: Joining a cult, committing suicide, doing drugs on a scale that will destroy cognitive function, go off anti-psychotic medication ... sheesh, looking back at those situations, the only one I haven't been through with a friend or relative is the first.

    Anyway, the problem with decision-ending decisions is that the person who goes that route denies himself the chance to wake up later and say, "What a complete barking idiot I've been." That's why it's fair game for friends, family and even strangers to intervene.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Suicide is a very selfish shortsighted irrational action. Often people who commit suicide in the western world live comfortably with working limbs and senses. These blessings in and of themselves should have you on your knees and thanking God.

    Contrary to belief there is someone who loves and cares about you. That person or persons will never understand why you did something so selfish.

    So yes, suicide should be discouraged and you should intervene. Why you would sit there and watch as a human wastes into oblivion is completely beyond me.
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 03-31-2009 at 02:47.
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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    I think we should highly discourage it but not stop it or punish attempts at it...
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    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Contrary to belief there is someone who loves and cares about you. That person or persons will never understand why you did something so selfish.
    Yes and no.

    When she nearly killed herself, she told me she knew that we were there, she knew we loved her, but it didn't matter. She couldnt feel it, it didn't feel real. She could not comprehend or believe that anyone felt about her that way.

    I can't say for sure, but I think its probably the same. The reality of the situation is in the back of your mind...you sit there and you know. But it just doesnt matter, its not real. its blocked out. It doesnt make sense.

    Actually seeing the effect attempted suicide has on the ones who love you definately puts you off it, but it doesnt stop you from trying again.

    its very selfish, but...you kind of have to be in that situation yourself to understand...IMO anyway.

    This topic brings back so many bad memories...
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    While I admit I have never had feelings like that

    And honestly if someone told me that they knew I loved them and they would still do it. I'd knock them out and chain them to bed. I'd be very upset
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 03-31-2009 at 03:54.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

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    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Yes, a suicidal person is frequently if not always mentaly ill, or else in a such an overwhelming situation where they can not understand there actions. You can't treat this like a rational decision, it deserves it's own set of safe guards.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
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    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Understandable that you would be upset, everyone affected by it is. The fact remains though you know the situation, it just....isnt there. Gah. Hard to explain.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
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    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    When another person wants to make a choice that will end his or her ability to make any more choices, I think it's legitimate to intervene.

    Examples: Joining a cult, committing suicide, doing drugs on a scale that will destroy cognitive function, go off anti-psychotic medication ... sheesh, looking back at those situations, the only one I haven't been through with a friend or relative is the first.

    Anyway, the problem with decision-ending decisions is that the person who goes that route denies himself the chance to wake up later and say, "What a complete barking idiot I've been." That's why it's fair game for friends, family and even strangers to intervene.
    A little off topic, but do you apply that logic to seatbelt laws?

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Suicide is a very selfish shortsighted irrational action. Often people who commit suicide in the western world live comfortably with working limbs and senses. These blessings in and of themselves should have you on your knees and thanking God.

    Contrary to belief there is someone who loves and cares about you. That person or persons will never understand why you did something so selfish.

    So yes, suicide should be discouraged and you should intervene. Why you would sit there and watch as a human wastes into oblivion is completely beyond me.
    +1

    great post



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    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SFTS
    Suicide is a very selfish shortsighted irrational action. Often people who commit suicide in the western world live comfortably with working limbs and senses. These blessings in and of themselves should have you on your knees and thanking God.

    Contrary to belief there is someone who loves and cares about you. That person or persons will never understand why you did something so selfish.

    So yes, suicide should be discouraged and you should intervene. Why you would sit there and watch as a human wastes into oblivion is completely beyond me.
    +1

    great post
    The last third of it is good, but as I've said, those things simply don't come into the mind of a person in that condition.

    Lets say your brother dies, of natural causes. You are understandably upset. What if someone says that you should be thankful he died peacefully, and that he wasnt shot to death, nor were you.

    Your sad. Sadness keeps things out of your mind.

    The only other thing I can think of is reading a book. You may know the words you need are in this paragraph, you're reading them, but you are just not with it and you just keep reading. You're reading it, but you don't realise it.


    Not great examples, but its the best I can do at work.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    A little off topic, but do you apply that logic to seatbelt laws?
    Not for adults. If they want to needlessly put themselves in jeopardy, that's their right. But they should be ticketed for allowing minors to be loose in a vehicle, especially at highway speeds. Likewise, adults who want to ride motorcycles without a helmet should be allowed to do so.

    Risky behavior does not equal suicidal behavior.
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    So the line is drawn at intent, not what actually comes out of the action?
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Well if you are a cop you stop people from preventing suicide by killing them. Unless the media is present, then you counsel them.

    Other than that, adult people should be allowed to kill themselves if they want, regardless of whether or not they can prove they have a fatal illness. In fact, they pretty much can. It's easy, I could do it right now if I want. Unless I had a fatal illness I guess and was stuck in bed, then I'd need someone to do it for me.

    I seem to miss what part of dying with dignity entails being eaten alive by cancer as opposed to putting a round in your heart or sucking on a tail pipe.....oh wait, I remember now, legal suicide would hurt the industrial medical machine because they couldn't siphon away families savings for treatments that only prolong suffering.
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Yes, we should prevent suicide attempts.

    But then again, there's euthanasia, which should be allowed.

    Finding the right balance is difficult
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    Senior Member Senior Member Beefy187's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Yes but as long as you are certain that no one is going to be traumatised about it.

    If its a clean suicide, supervised by doctars and are old enough to declare that you've had enough fun in your life then who are we to stop them?

    If its a suicide for the sake of proving something.. Even more so. Lots of people do stupid things like stunts.. These are suicide attempts to. But no one is stopping them because we would know that they died chasing their dreams.

    Suicide in this context. No. It adds nothing to the society. It takes everything away from them. Not only the family have to clean their mess, but they are so young. There is so much that they can do in the future but they decides to throw everything away. And further hand out grief to those who are left.

    I think suiciding is just arrogant and selfish, inconsiderate thing to do.

    Although when the pressure is on you and depression hits you, you can't really think like this which I understand. And while its a minority, some of those who attempts or think about suiciding really do live in cruel environment. But even those shouldn't suicide. Instead they should try to find their way out or seek support.

    As for those who are complaining about trivial factors like X box. Definitely not. Suicide attempts by those kinds should be prevented at all cost.


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    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    I've said a lot of stuff so far, but not my position.

    Case by case basis. I'd want someone to stop the girl in question from before, but not me.
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    I probably wouldn't interfere but I'm of the opinion that you make your choices and get on with life.

    If someone decides they don't want to get on with life then who am I to say that they have to? And lets face it, if you really want to kill yourself you will no matter what anyone else says or does.

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Of course every effort should be made in stopping a suicide attempt!

    However, understandably most of the time our efforts come away in vain. There is something very wrong with our culture that actually says people who try to kill themselves aren't human or secretly deserve it, when in fact it can be very opposite. This whole nonsense about it being a selfish act, or the most terrible thing you can do, thats why the issue is so underground and why people are afraid to actually say something, and just do it anyways. And its not always people who are "mentally ill" a lot of the time its absolutely average people who feel like they've been backed into a corner and there's no way out.

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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    I would like to disagree with this notion that suicide is selfish... often people who kill themselves do it partially for others benefit as well as thier own...

    Well some of them can be based off selfless thinking... others i think people have the right to be as damn selfish as they want, it is them that has to go through thier sad lives everyday... not thier parents, friends or sibllings... so the decision should rest on thier personal feelings and not the potential reactions to thier loved ones...
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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Once the person is not suffering from treatable depression and any other factors that are treatable are treated (severe pain for example) then the person should be allowed to die.

    This in my mind differentiates a teenager drinking a litre of vodka and 100 paracetamol as their first "true love" has left them for someone else to a person with an incurable neurodegenerative disease making a choice before their quality of life drops below a level they are unable to countenance.

    Of course, my two examples are obviously the nice simple black and white ones.

    Doctors now have to follow patient wishes far more than they used to - including witholding treatment and care if the patient has specified.

    I agree that suicide is a selfish act, but so is smoking or drug dealing - and oh so many activities we undertake.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    I don't think you can say that suicide is always selfish. Although in most cases there will be people who love someone comtemplating suicide, that person may feel that they are such a burden they will be doing their family a favour. Although there might be a bit of short-term grief, it will save a lifetime of misery for all involved. This doesn't just happen with suicides, what about those old people who go into care homes and become like zombies because they didn't want to consume their children's time and hold them back in life? Are they selfish?

    I'm not saying that's how it is, but that's what those who commit suicide may think like. From their perspective, its not a selfish act.

    I think we should stop suicides from happening, but we should not call all those who consider it 'selfish' either. That's niether fair nor productive when it comes to dealing with them.
    Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 03-31-2009 at 13:25.
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    I think that if you're terminally ill or severely handicapped after an accident, suicidide or euthanesia would be understandable and should be allowed.

    People who are perfectly fit and yet want to kill themselves is less understandable and this would most likely come from a mental illness. If someone is really determined he'll succeed someway, making it somewhat a moot point.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Examples: Joining a cult, committing suicide, doing drugs on a scale that will destroy cognitive function, go off anti-psychotic medication ... sheesh, looking back at those situations, the only one I haven't been through with a friend or relative is the first.
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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    The last third of it is good, but as I've said, those things simply don't come into the mind of a person in that condition.
    Yes they do. I've talked to a few friends who have contemplated suicide, and they all said their loved ones kept them alive.

    Edit:

    The only absolute reason that would ever stop myself from committing suicide, would be my family. I would damage them beyond all belief if I killed myself.
    Last edited by Ice; 03-31-2009 at 22:38.



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    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kush View Post
    Yes they do. I've talked to a few friends who have contemplated suicide, and they all said their loved ones kept them alive.
    The only experience I can go off is my own and that of my ex gf's.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
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  29. #29
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    The last third of it is good, but as I've said, those things simply don't come into the mind of a person in that condition.

    Lets say your brother dies, of natural causes. You are understandably upset. What if someone says that you should be thankful he died peacefully, and that he wasnt shot to death, nor were you.

    Your sad. Sadness keeps things out of your mind.

    The only other thing I can think of is reading a book. You may know the words you need are in this paragraph, you're reading them, but you are just not with it and you just keep reading. You're reading it, but you don't realise it.


    Not great examples, but its the best I can do at work.
    I would say that person needs to learn tact.


    You have to show them you love them. You have to look in there ears and bear your soul. Doing it over the phone or facebook simply won't cut it. Make sure they know killing themselves would be like killing you.

    I was speaking more of the younger demographic, old people are completely different.

    I would like to disagree with this notion that suicide is selfish... often people who kill themselves do it partially for others benefit as well as thier own...

    Well some of them can be based off selfless thinking... others i think people have the right to be as damn selfish as they want, it is them that has to go through thier sad lives everyday... not thier parents, friends or sibllings... so the decision should rest on thier personal feelings and not the potential reactions to thier loved ones...
    Saddness is all a matter of perception. A 17 year old offing themselves is completly and utterly selfish , to there mum, dad and family. Not to mention there future spouse and children or people they will meet later on.

    This whole "Oh woe is me" thing is a pile of bull. As is "no one understands" There is someone somewhere going through something much worse and there doing it with a smile on there face.

    Now if you'll excuse me I must get off my high horse
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  30. #30
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we prevent suicide attempts?

    TBH i saw suicide as pretty much worry free one of the attractions... maybe im just selfish but it wouldn't be a deciding factor...

    Though i have no dependents if i did... it might be different...

    Saddness is all a matter of perception. A 17 year old offing themselves is completly and utterly selfish , to there mum, dad and family.


    Im sure some 17 year old have pretty crappy lives, with no hope for improvment... they may be wrong about there being no hope but is it really that selfish for someone to remove themselves from a horrible place becase they cant take it anymore and see no escape...
    Last edited by LittleGrizzly; 04-01-2009 at 01:53.
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