EB RTW.exe Naval Invasions-Oh yes they do

[/Bean\]

Yep, it doesn't happen often, or indeed particulary cleverly(?), but here is the thread that yes it does happen. Post screenies of your EB games, using the Vanilla RTW.exe, that show the AI conducting naval operations and landings. I have a few from my Romani campaign, showing the Carthies:

The Carthaginians, in their wisdom, decide to invade Cyrenica, not only with the single land army they have on the border, but also with a nice stack from Mauritania, who, even with few ships, managed to pass the Roman patrols and blockades between Africa and Sicilia simply due to the Roman commander's astonishment. It was with almost disapointment that they watched them sail past the undefended Sicilian island, and onwards to Egypt.







And here comes the second wave:



These are the screenies I could be bothered to take, but the Carthies also move troops between Mauritania and Iberia sometimes as long as they own both and are fighting the Luso's. The Greeks, when they have ships, move between Rhodes and Greece itself. The Ptolies (used to ) move beween Asia Minor, Cypres and Egypt.


Anybody else got some to post, or some accounts of naval invasions using the RTW.exe?

[Iskander 3.1]

Oh noezz! Somebody set you up The Bomb!

EDIT: Sorry, I guess that doesn't add anything to the thread...that was just my reaction when I saw those screenshots.

[Zett]

I thought it's pretty well known that the AI makes navel Ivasions with rtw.exe? I (defending Kyrene) often fight against Carthaginians that have Balearic singlers, Sardinian Infantery, Akontistai and many Iberian units (for example the Cataphrakt Cavalery). So yes, the AI does navel Invasions, why shoudn't it?

The problem is, that there are some requirements.

1. The AI does not need the troops that should take part on the naval invasion (Troops on an island or in a region where the AI has no enemies, like Carthage in Iberia if the are allied with the Lusotanna).

2. The AI needs ships! Here is the mainproblem.

a) the AI normally only builds ships to block enemy harbours or fight against other ships (normally not for navalinvasions). So if the AI is not at war with a faction that have ports, it will build no ships. Even if it had troops on islands that could take part on a naval invasion it will build no ships, cause it will recruit landtroops in these cities to fight the enemy (In the eyes of the AI this is the "shorter way" to fight against the enemy).

b) Also ships are more expensive then normal troops. So the AI will think "Why should I build expensive but (In the eyes of the AI) useless (see a) why the AI think they are useless) ships, if I'm at war with a enemy that use landtroops and my landtroops can reach/fight them?"

So if the AI has ships (like Carthage, frequently at war with a faction that has ports) it will use them for naval invasions too. AI: "Oh I have ships, they are useless but now where I have them I can use them".

3. (partly mentioned in 2.) The AI must be at war with a faction that should be the traget of the naval invasion or it must have the ambition to expand, but the "shortest way" to the enemy (means, the AI can not reach the potential new enemy on the landway) is via ship.
But for 3. point 2. is required. In the case of Casse, the AI has no ambition to build ships, even if it has an ambition to expand (if it had taken the British Isles).

I'm not sure if this is completly correct, but with my 1 year experience playing EB as different faction, my observations of the AI led my to that assumption.

If we would make ships cheaper, or at least the transport ships, we could investigate how the AI would react on that change. Problem: AI would spam only transport ships and no battleships. And if we would gave the transport ships lower stats, the AI would not build them (my assumtion, cause it builds ships not for naval invasions, but for "fighting" other ships or block harbours).

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[miotas]

I've never seen a true naval invasion, sure they will ship troops to lands that they already control, like from africa to iberia for the carthies but I've never seen them ship troops to say, retake sicily from the romans after they've been pushed out, they simply have no ambition to attack cities they don't share a land border with.

[Zett]

I've never seen a true naval invasion, sure they will ship troops to lands that they already control, like from africa to iberia for the carthies but I've never seen them ship troops to say, retake sicily from the romans after they've been pushed out, they simply have no ambition to attack cities they don't share a land border with.

As long, as the landway is "shorter" they will not attack islands, but sometimes they do. I had Carthagians that tried to retake Corsica or Sicily. But yes, mostly they only ship their troops to their own regions and merge them their with their other armies.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[seienchin]

Wow I am impressed. Im playing with alex.exe and never had proper naval invasions..., only sometimes AS Armies skipping the long way throug minor Asia via ship. Anyway, has anybody ever saw the AI atack the small one city only Islands??? I never saw that and Im playing nothing except for EB and sometimes Rome Vanilla since 2 years.
But anyway the high price of ships in EB wrecks the whole navy experience. In my Romani capmain I played until 130 bc and only had one single fight against other nation, that was serious. I encountered a lot of pirates and sometimes single ships of the smallest size of enemy countries, but only the ptollies built one of the katamaran fighting ships. (The biggest and best ones in EB)

[/Bean\]

Once you defeat the starting ships, the AI don't often build anymore. The Ptolies do, but usually only if they don't control Antiocheia and of course do control Alexandreia.

I sometimes roleplay Eleutheroi fleets as fleets of Carthage or whatever.

Still, I think the mass spamming of ships in RTW Vanilla by every nation with a port was a bit too much. However, I do wish there were more ships. Still, this will all be sorted by EB III, when we can fight on water properly .

[seienchin]

Once you defeat the starting ships, the AI don't often build anymore. The Ptolies do, but usually only if they don't control Antiocheia and of course do control Alexandreia.

I sometimes roleplay Eleutheroi fleets as fleets of Carthage or whatever.

Still, I think the mass spamming of ships in RTW Vanilla by every nation with a port was a bit too much. However, I do wish there were more ships. Still, this will all be sorted by EB III, when we can fight on water properly .

Oh yeah!!!
Trieremes fighting in Empire Graphik... How great would that be.
Anyway, As long as you have one harbour you probably want to have ships to defend yourself so I guess Vanilla is more realistic. EB has so pretty and cool ships it is a shame, that you have so few of them.

[/Bean\]

Yeah, but in Vanilla ships cost, like, 300 Dinarii? Every faction with a port had several full stacks of ships and it just got annoying. Hopefully EBII can get a good balance between the two

[miotas]

Yeah, but in Vanilla ships cost, like, 300 Dinarii? Every faction with a port had several full stacks of ships and it just got annoying. Hopefully EBII can get a good balance between the two

plus in vanilla, the ships were indestructible, you had to chase them all around the sea, playing air hockey with them, to eventually destroy them

[Drewski]

In my current Epiros camapaign (my last KH one sadly suffered a fatal CTD), I chased the ai KH out of Greece, and left them with only Rhodes, and made peace. Imagine my surprise, when less than 10 yrs later, my roving diplomat finds they have taken half of Anatolya, and have 6 cities! (Hali, Sardis, Perg etc, etc.)

Most (if not all) of these troops must have come from Rhodes, excepting Mercs.

The point being, when I conquered them, they had no mainland troops or Generals left. They must have all come by ship.

EDIT: On the point of ships, go back and play RTW or even RTR anyone for a while, and you'll realise that EB gets it right. Because ships were available anywhere/cheaply with the afforementioned, it got damn tedious and annoying PLUS, it led to that well known ai bug/behaviour, where it DOW on you just because you have an undefended port.

If you gave the ai more/cheaper ships of any kind, you'd just get this happening again. And you really don't want that do you?

[/Bean\]

Uh,actualy Drewski, that probably resulted from rebelling cities in Asia Minor, and the resulting forces taking the poorly defended regions of the Seleukids...happens frequently.

[Drewski]

Uh,actualy Drewski, that probably resulted from rebelling cities in Asia Minor, and the resulting forces taking the poorly defended regions of the Seleukids...happens frequently.

Ah yes, there is that option too...hadn't thought of that

[Constantine the Great]

The only naval invasions I've ever seen are my current game as Rome in BI.exe. The Ptolies seized Rhodes and Chalkis, and I've had KH attacking Kyrene and occasionally landing a stack at Tarantum.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Archimedes you suckas!! I play alex.exe, the best .exe for EB!!!!

Naval invasions happen to me all the time, the first one being a full-stack of Makedonians attacking my Epriotes on mainland Hellas in 268 BC!!!

[/Bean\]

I thought Alex.exe had really annoying AI uberstack spawns...

[Aemilius Paulus]

I thought Alex.exe had really annoying AI uberstack spawns...

Huh? What are you talking about? The armies are still the same. The AI will retrain and employ better tactics, in addition to the naval invasions, but that is about all when it comes to units and how AI handles them. I do not see why you blame alex.exe for "uberstack spawns". It does not have anything to do with that...

[/Bean\]

Ok...calm down...I merely asked if they did do that, because I thought they did...maybe I'm thinking of BI.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I had once a small Ptolemaioi army land on Sicily near Syracuse. It was about ca 265BC. They sat there some turns, never doing anything and then they left. It was quite interesting to see something like that. I posted a picture of it in the AI progression thread some time ago.

[/Bean\]

That's weird...maybe they were an armed (and failed) diplomatic force...seeking an alliance with the Syracusians...without realising thats just not how RTW diplomacy works...

[Silence Hunter]

Or maybe they came to conquer Syracuse, saw huge garrison and decided that it's not going to be as easy as they thought, so they left?

On a side note I noticed that AI, when attacking land connected settlements, tries to calculate how large force they need to take a particular town. They usually wait while they have enough forces (or at least think that they have enough) and only then attack. However this doesn't apply for naval invasions.

[seienchin]

Or maybe they came to conquer Syracuse, saw huge garrison and decided that it's not going to be as easy as they thought, so they left?

On a side note I noticed that AI, when attacking land connected settlements, tries to calculate how large force they need to take a particular town. They usually wait while they have enough forces (or at least think that they have enough) and only then attack. However this doesn't apply for naval invasions.

Really? The AI always tries to take settlements with 2 or 3 unit stacks...
I guess the Ai is rather focussing on cities in there victory conditions and tries to take one at a time of them.

[Zett]

Sometimes the AI really waits for more suppport if it "thinks", that it has no chance.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Subotan]

I've seen one, ever. I was playing as Epeiros, had Sardinia and left it basically undefeneded. Lo and behold, Carthies sent a fleet to Sardinia, starting a war , taking me by surprise and capturing Sardinia.

[Aemilius Paulus]

I've seen one, ever. I was playing as Epeiros, had Sardinia and left it basically undefeneded. Lo and behold, Carthies sent a fleet to Sardinia, starting a war , taking me by surprise and capturing Sardinia.

Are you certain it was rtw.exe ?

[Zett]

Are you certain it was rtw.exe ?

I had the same, was either Sardinia or Corsica and of course the Carthies. But Carthage is the only faction I noticed that transports hugh numbers of troops from their isles to their mainland or make naval invasions. (rtw.exe)

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Subotan]

Are you certain it was rtw.exe ?

Yes, 100%.

[seienchin]

Wow... I play vanilla at the moment. As the carthagenian and guess what... The Ai constantly does naval invasions... The romans took carali and are now besieging palma. They were also sending thousands of soldiers to help the fight at Messana. The greeks also tried to save Syracus with a full stack and the romans also landed near chartago last turn.
I guess its not the Rome exe. Its EB!
I guess its because of three facts.
1. Ships are so expensive that the Ai only builts them sometimes to fight rather to invade.
2. The Map is so big that the Ai cant plan to invade that far??
3. unit stats are so high, that the Ai sees no chance of invading via see.

[Zett]

I guess its not the Rome exe. Its EB!
I guess its because of three facts.
1. Ships are so expensive that the Ai only builts them sometimes to fight rather to invade.
2. The Map is so big that the Ai cant plan to invade that far??
3. unit stats are so high, that the Ai sees no chance of invading via see.

I think it is somethink like that. The AI thinks why should I build ships if i can recruit 3 land units for the same money? But otherwise, if ships are too cheap, we would have huge numbers of fleets that do nothing.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[seienchin]

But still... Without frequent navy invasions the game is too easy for many factions and Chartago never dies...
I had the other theory that the scipii atacked me so often because the factions around them were the other romans they couldnt atack, but then the Julii atacked me too