Roman Battle Formation

**antisocialmunky** · 04-04-2009, 14:42

Man those old 60s movies where they actually used ridiculus amounts of extras were so much more epic...

Also for the whole Leroy Jenkins stunt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaf...eature=related

But yeah, what Ludens said. It probably wouldn't be so easy during combat conditions depending on how hard you're being hit and casualties.

**Publius Aelius Hadrianus** · 04-04-2009, 16:22

Great movie... fantastic tactics
Roma victoria

**Ardri** · 04-05-2009, 01:08

Very nice video, and I agree that the older movies are much more epic than the computer generated movies they create now (with a few exceptions). It would be very interesting to see how well the Romans actually were able to rotate soldiers from front to back of the cohort during combat. It seems that it would lead to a natural giving of ground. I say this because logically it appear to be easier for the front unit to move back off the front and allow the second rank to assume the front of the formation from their current position as opposed to moving all the ranks behind moving up to fill the space of the now vacant front rank, but that is just pure speculation on my part. Would seem easier to coordinate 1 direction of movement as opposed to 2 directions while in combat nonetheless.

**Celtic_Punk** · 04-05-2009, 06:26

I think that a whole rotation of a rank in close combat like that would require a lot of coordination, perhaps it was done in several parts, first call is a cautionary the 2nd rank prepares to take over, 2nd call the formation pushes forward and the 1st rank then falls back between the shields. I've seen riot officers do something like this with gas grenades. firing, then while he reloads the 2 officers flanking him (keep in mind there are about 10 shooters) have shields and then they move forward to protecthim. then they spread apart the shields a bit. he fires, repeat.

same techniques. This could be done i'm sure. it would take alot of drilling though.

**antisocialmunky** · 04-05-2009, 12:43

But this would be in melee. IMHO, the biggest problem is pulling back with that huge shield and not having it get caught on anything or having to hold it in such a way that makes you unable to defend yourself. More realistically you would also have to take into consideration that it probably wasn't just the first row but the first one or two rows that were actively engaged(enemy units penetrating or being compressed). TW is a little too neat sometimes in its depiction of formation fighting.

Realistically it probably happened during lulls in battle since many types of enemies would attack in waves. So the rotation would take place between waves if the idea was to absorb each charge with fresh men while the enemy slowly wore down.

**geala** · 04-07-2009, 11:03

I'm just waiting for a hint to a source for this idea of combat. Afaik it is an idea of a Italian reenactment group and strongly opposed by many others, isn't it? I think it's unlikely that it could succeed in battle. It's far better imho to reinforce with whole units. But who knows?

**Aulus Caecina Severus** · 04-13-2009, 13:27

I found this interesting treaty studying what are the parameters that influence a battle.
Here we mention the effects of rotation, the number of ranks and morale.
says that many ranks are not better than a few (see Cannae).
Also said that veterans and bravest are back in the ranks because they know better to resist anxiety.

http://utenti.lycos.it/campagneparal...sur-combat.pdf

(this is an italian version)

The pages of interest are: p. 9, 10, 11 but there is also many interesting parts.

Unfortunately i think M2TW engine can only do formations static and fixed property (such as Greek or barbarian) when the second rank begin battle only when the first rank are died or completely exaust.