U.S Citizens right to own a firearm debate

[PowerWizard]

Surely one can argue about the significance of numbers and the meaning of them? What is the murder rate in switzerland? In any case, this was not what we were discussing.

How is that even remotely relevant to what I said? ˇˇ

Way too liberal gun control in the United States lead to the highest rate of homicides committed by firearms in the world. You either admit that or you ignore reality.

Why do you think that makes it a faulty comparison? Your argument was that people have a right to life. Many, many people die from drunk driving accidents. If you argue that guns being legal infringes on the population's right to life, then you would have to argue that alcohol being legal infringes on the population's right to life. You can say the problem is people driving when they shouldn't, I can say that the problem is people shooting other people when they shouldn't.

As for design, if you insist on it, I would not that cars are design to travel at lethal speeds and alcohol is designed to make people into dangerous drivers. But again, the point isn't to compare alcohol and guns, but to use the same logic you did on a different scenario. What is your argument for keeping alcohol legal, regardless of whether you consider the comparison valid?

So are you suggesting that cars are designed to kill people? Amazing.

[Strike For The South]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Homicides_by_country"]QUOTE=PowerWizard;2202561]How is that even remotely relevant to what I said? ˇˇ

Way too liberal gun control in the United States lead to the highest rate of homicides committed by firearms in the world. You either admit that or you ignore reality.



So are you suggesting that cars are designed to kill people? Amazing.[/QUOTE]

And the truth shall set you free.

[Reverend Joe]

Way too liberal gun control in the United States lead to the highest rate of homicides committed by firearms in the world. You either admit that or you ignore reality.

Actually, restriction of freedoms is a traditionally conservative viewpoint, which means that Liberals are Conservative on gun rights. How support for gun control ended up in their camp, I don't know; it must have something to do with protecting cute fuzzy animals.

[Fixiwee]

I wonder if there are any studies on the countries with the lowest homocide with guns rate. Why don't people shoot each other? Is the generell murder count lower or do they simply stab each other?

[Spino]

Actually, restriction of freedoms is a traditionally conservative viewpoint, which means that Liberals are Conservative on gun rights. How support for gun control ended up in their camp, I don't know; it must have something to do with protecting cute fuzzy animals.

Yes but at some point in our country's history liberalism became conservatism (the new 'classical liberalism'). Don't ask me why or when....

Or maybe you can take the time to read this...

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/what-is-classical-liberalism

These are good for the how and when.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Classical_L...nservatism.pdf

[Crazed Rabbit]

Violence leads to violence. If everyone carries a gun with himself/herself, the probability that gunfights are going to occur is higher, therefore boundless gun ownership doesn't lead to bigger safety, but to more violence and danger.

I'm sorry*, but that is incorrect. Statistics show no rise in violence in a state after people have been able to carry a concealed gun in public. You've got no proof for that statement.

Come on people. You are A CIVLLIAN. Why the hell do you need a Ak-47? Please give me a logical reason beside the "Self-Defense" and "Taget Pratice" arguments.

Semi-auto rifles are more useful for self defense than shotguns. And in some cases (see 1992 LA Rodney King riots & Korean store owners) they are necessary for defense.

But that's tangential. The main reason to have such guns is to violently overthrow our government if it becomes necessary.

Also, need should never be part of the reasoning for banning things.

Could it be that the high percentage of gun violence in US has nothing to do with gun laws, but rather it is a cultural thing. Please ´merican friends, enlighten me, but is it or is it not acceptable in American culture to defend yourself and your home or property with firearms? Thus the threshold to use guns in violent situations is rather low?

A large percentage of crimes, especially homicides, have to do with gangs and drugs.

But yes, in most places it is socially acceptable to defend yourself and home with firearms. But that's different from using a gun in any potentially violent situation.

Actually, restriction of freedoms is a traditionally conservative viewpoint, which means that Liberals are Conservative on gun rights. How support for gun control ended up in their camp, I don't know; it must have something to do with protecting cute fuzzy animals.

Indeed. Rather odd. I suspect it may have to do with how the "liberals" in the US are more accurately "leftists" and as such they support gun control because it undermines individuality and self reliance - things you want to get rid of should you fancy more government control.

CR
*not really

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And the truth shall set you free.

“Cultural differences and more-permissive legal standards notwithstanding, the English rate of violent crime has been soaring since 1991. Over the same period, America's has been falling dramatically. In 1999 The Boston Globe reported that the American murder rate, which had fluctuated by about 20 percent between 1974 and 1991, was "in startling free-fall." We have had nine consecutive years of sharply declining violent crime. As a result the English and American murder rates are converging. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and the latest study puts it at 3.5 times.”[19]

"20 percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6% of the population – New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C., and each has a virtual prohibition on private handguns"[23] Detroit has 47.3 murders per every 100,000 residents.[24] In contrast to these areas, some areas have widespread gun ownership with low rates of homicide. In 2005, Wyoming had the highest number of homes with loaded and unlocked guns, at 33% of all homes in the state, of any state in the United States[25] and had a homicide rate of 1.7/100,000.[26]

[Kagemusha]

Could it be that the high percentage of gun violence in US has nothing to do with gun laws, but rather it is a cultural thing. Please ´merican friends, enlighten me, but is it or is it not acceptable in American culture to defend yourself and your home or property with firearms? Thus the threshold to use guns in violent situations is rather low?

[Strike For The South]

Could it be that the high percentage of gun violence in US has nothing to do with gun laws, but rather it is a cultural thing. Please ´merican friends, enlighten me, but is it or is it not acceptable in American culture to defend yourself and your home or property with firearms? Thus the threshold to use guns in violent situations is rather low?

I would be flabbergasted if someone broke into one of my neighbors house and he didn't try to shoot them.

It's accepted practice.

[PowerWizard]

And the truth shall set you free.

Thanks for the link that proves my point about the world's highest rate of homicide committed by firearms is the USA's. Plus the gun violence in the USA page describes a lot of problems caused by the gun control (actually the lack of it), also proving my point.

There are plenty of other creative ways to defend yourself than to carry a deadly weapon with you day and night and keep it under your pillow while you sleep. I wouldn't find it safe to live in a country where 40% of the population feel it inevitable to own a gun not to "compromise one of their basic freedoms". But I understand that carrying guns is somehow hard-wired in the American psyche. Perhaps it has something to do with the frontier mentality.

Hammerson: You know, Hertz, people love guns because America is a land of opportunity where a poor man can become rich and a PUSSY can become a tough guy, if he's got a gun in his hand. Now, I'm hopin' you're not just a pussy with a gun in your hand.
Mr. Hertz: Oh no sir, no, no I am not. I am a tough guy with a pussy in my hand.

[Xiahou]

Thanks for the link that proves my point about the world's highest rate of homicide committed by firearms is the USA's.

No, it certainly doesn't. Better look again.

[Strike For The South]

Thanks for the link that proves my point about the world's highest rate of homicide committed by firearms is the USA's. Plus the gun violence in the USA page describes a lot of problems caused by the gun control (actually the lack of it), also proving my point.

There are plenty of other creative ways to defend yourself than to carry a deadly weapon with you day and night and keep it under your pillow while you sleep. I wouldn't find it safe to live in a country where 40% of the population feel it inevitable to own a gun not to "compromise one of their basic freedoms". But I understand that carrying guns is somehow hard-wired in the American psyche. Perhaps it has something to do with the frontier mentality.

No it doesn't!

I don't want creative. I want dead. In fact I never want to have to use a gun to defend myself. Hunt/sport are much better uses for a firearm

Simply because a man has a gun does not mean he is lacking manhood, besides that would really suck if you got killed by him while doing your cool creative karate moves!

[PowerWizard]

No it doesn't!

I don't want creative. I want dead. In fact I never want to have to use a gun to defend myself. Hunt/sport are much better uses for a firearm

Simply because a man has a gun does not mean he is lacking manhood, besides that would really suck if you got killed by him while doing your cool creative karate moves!

LOL, this nerve reminds me of a scene in the Raiders of the Lost Ark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiCVAkzTD3c