Gun Control: I Told You So (Nanny-Nanny Boo-Boo)

[Lemur]

See, although the Dems excel at wringing defeat from the jaws of victory, they are also capable of learning, in much the same way that child learns that a stove is hot. (I am now doing my patented "I told you so" dance.)

Obama and top White House aides have all but abandoned the issue. Emanuel helped orchestrate passage of the original assault-weapons ban when he worked in the Clinton White House. Now he and other White House strategists have decided they can't afford to tangle with the National Rifle Association at a time when they're pushing other priorities, like economic renewal and health-care reform, say congressional officials who have raised the matter. (According to his office, Emanuel couldn't be reached for comment because he was observing the Passover holiday.) A White House official, who asked not to be identified discussing internal strategy, says, "There isn't support in Congress for such a ban at this time." Ben LaBolt, a White House spokesman, says, "The president supports the Second Amendment, respects the tradition of gun ownership in this country, and he believes we can take common-sense steps to keep our streets safe," pointing to $2 billion in new funding for state and local law enforcement in the stimulus package. [...]

Democratic leaders like House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer are determined to protect the seats of "blue dogs" from rural districts who are essential to preserving the party's majority in the House. "The Democratic Party understands this is a losing issue … It's a dead loser," says Democratic Rep. Dan Boren, of Muskogee, Okla. "Its one of the reasons they lost the Congress in 1994 and Al Gore was not elected president in 2000."

Boren is a good example of the kind of young blue dog who now holds sway on this issue. A lifelong hunter who bagged his first deer at the age of 9—and has a stockpile of 15 guns at home—Boren is an NRA member who was elected last year to the lobby's board of directors. "I can tell you, that assault-weapons ban is just an excuse to take away a sportsman's shotguns," he says. Boren also understands the political dynamics of his district, in which Obama got only 36 percent of the vote (while Boren cruised to reelection with 70 percent). "For a Democrat to run in eastern Oklahoma, we can't support gun control. We shouldn't go back and refight old battles. This is an old debate."

[Proletariat]

[Crazed Rabbit]

See, although the Dems excel at wringing defeat from the jaws of victory, they are also capable of learning, in much the same way that child learns that a stove is hot. (I am now doing my patented "I told you so" dance.)

Although in your analogy, the child would have kept their hand on the hot stove for a good 15 minutes. Still, good to hear, especially the part about Holder being slapped down.

Or given that Mexico's insanely violent drug cartels are arming themselves with high-powered assault weapons purchased at U.S. gun stores and later smuggled south of the border.

No, they're not

"It's weird," says Peter Hamm, the communications director for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "When you see people like [Attorney General] Eric Holder or Hillary Clinton or [White House chief of staff] Rahm Emanuel become muted on this issue, you feel like you want to call up a friend and say, 'What's up?' "

The NRA's fortunes, are what.

CR

[||Lz3||]

Nevermind... I'll prepare my answer later. When I'm not hurried up.

Just leaving with...

Why do you so desperately need to have an assault rifle??? Self defense? pff against what?, red commies?.

[Vuk]

lol, they are openly pursuing gun-bans...now. Just give them time Lemur...

[Strike For The South]

Nevermind... I'll prepare my answer later. When I'm not hurried up.

Just leaving with...

Why do you so desperately need to have an assault rifle??? Self defense? pff against what?, red commies?.

To protect ourselves against the Mexicans we sold the same rifles to!

Because I want to put holes in things? Once I'm settled financially I'm getting an AR-15. I have no desire to kill people I just have a small... I think it's cool

[Vuk]

Step #1 Lemur - Registration. That is just what the socialist Hitler (who supported abortion, didn't want animal products used, and was a gun control advocate BTW. Not that that relates, but everyone likes to call the socialist slimeball 'rightwing', it is funny that he is leftwing on almost all social issues) did before the Holocaust. No one will register their guns if they think it is the first step to losing them, so you lie to them and tell them that it is just to keep children safer and they are in no danger of losing them. If you want to effectively disarm people, you will need to have the guns registered first so you know who has what. I am not saying that Obama is Hitler II necessarily, but simply that he IS following in his footsteps in WAY too many ways. If the Jews did not need to get permits for their guns, they would not have been able to disarm the Jews. If they had not disarmed the Jews, there could not have been a Holocaust.

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-- George Washington

"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair

You may think it is trite, but guns in the hands of citizens is how you ensure that the government does not turn into a control mechanism to exploit the people (as Hitler and Stalin did...both of whom were gun control advocates...). As I said above, I am not saying that Obama is Hitler II, or that we would make a Holocaust, but he does not have to. If his administration disarms the American people, or even takes the first step, that will make it all the easier for ambitious people to use the government to control the country to get what they want. You may not think it is important, but #2 is just as important as #1. All bans on guns in history that I have read about have ALL started with registration. I have obviously not studied all gun bans, so I do not know if there are not some that didn't, but at the least you can say that most did. Freedom to keep and bear arms needs to be protected, and gun registration is not doing that...it is doing the exact opposite. This is one of the big reasons I voted against Obama...this and his economic stupidity...

[Rhyfelwyr]

This isn't the 18th century, people can't just take up arms and march to battle if the government is oppressing them.

[InsaneApache]

This isn't the 18th century, people can't just take up arms and march to battle if the government is oppressing them.

Shhh.....don't upset 'em.

[Vuk]

This isn't the 18th century, people can't just take up arms and march to battle if the government is oppressing them.

lol, it is impossible for the government to take complete control of the country as long as its citizens are armed and resisting. Esp since we have a citizen military, and the only troops and resources available to the government would be those of other highly motivated people with the same goals. If the citizenry isn't armed though, it would be very possible for the government to take control of the country.
Sure, it isn't the 18th century...neither was 1938. The need for a people to be armed to ensure their own freedom has not changed through history.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Step #1 Lemur - Registration. That is just what the socialist Hitler (who supported abortion, didn't want animal products used, and was a gun control advocate BTW. Not that that relates, but everyone likes to call the socialist slimeball 'rightwing', it is funny that he is leftwing on almost all social issues) did before the Holocaust. No one will register their guns if they think it is the first step to losing them, so you lie to them and tell them that it is just to keep children safer and they are in no danger of losing them. If you want to effectively disarm people, you will need to have the guns registered first so you know who has what. I am not saying that Obama is Hitler II necessarily, but simply that he IS following in his footsteps in WAY too many ways. If the Jews did not need to get permits for their guns, they would not have been able to disarm the Jews. If they had not disarmed the Jews, there could not have been a Holocaust.

Thank you for the most impressive Godwin it has been my privilege to read in this or any forum.

[Vuk]

Thank you for the most impressive Godwin it has been my privilege to read in this or any forum.

Godwin? Sorry, I do not know what you mean. Perhaps you would tell me where I am off in my post...

[KukriKhan]

Thank you for the most impressive Godwin it has been my privilege to read in this or any forum.

The speed was pretty good too: total elapsed time from OP to Godwin: 9 hours, 10 minutes.


-edit-

Reference to "Godwin": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[Vuk]

The speed was pretty good too: total elapsed time from OP to Godwin: 9 hours, 10 minutes.


-edit-

Reference to "Godwin": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Sorry Kukri, I do not think I overuse comparing things to Hitler, or do it unless I think there is a good point to be made. The reason I did it here is because the same thing was done to create one of the greatest attrocities mankind has ever seen. I think that is worth pointing out. I didn't pick on Hitler though, I also mention Stalin (who was even worse). ~:P

[InsaneApache]

Hilarious. Obama=Hitler.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I didn't pick on Hitler though, I also mention Stalin (who was even worse). ~:P

Here we go again *grabs some popcorn*

Not only do we get the above classic, we can also discuss whether Hitler was a socialist. Two classics, in one, yeah!

[Lemur]

Sure, Stalin was worse than Hitler, but the Nazis had snazzier uniforms and a more imagination-scarring methodology. So people flog the Nazis in discussion way, way more.

Vuk, the entire point of the OP was that the Dems have finally learned that attacking gun rights is a political loser, and they're backing away from it as fast as they humanly can. How this relates to your posts is kinda beyond my understanding.

[Vuk]

Here we go again *grabs some popcorn*

Not only do we get the above classic, we can also discuss whether Hitler was a socialist. Two classics, in one, yeah!

Hitler was a socialist. His party name was Nationalsozialismus. He was liberal on almost all social issues. He was a strong abortion advocate, a strong gun-control advocate, an animal rights advocate, etc.

Hilarious. Obama=Hitler.

I specifically said that I was not saying Obama=Hitler, simply that he is making the mistake of going down a dangerous road.

[KukriKhan]

No worries, mate. Calling a Godwin isn't necessarily an accusation; just an observation that over time, in any given thread, on any given topic, somebody will refer to Hitler or Nazi's. It happens here in the backroom all the time, especially in the threads that go beyond 3 pages.

Joking, Banquo's Ghost called a Godwin because of the depth and passion of your post that mentions Hitler. Continuing the joke, I pointed out how quickly Der Fuehrer was invoked.

To the topic: I read recently a movement within ATF to work up plans to somehow register ammunition. What is a gun, without bullets? Avoids the whole 2nd Am'nt thingee.

[Lemur]

Um, okay Vuk. Turnabout is fair play: the Son of Sam serial killer lived with his parents, much like Vuk. I am specifically not saying that Vuk is like the Son of Sam, but he is engaging in much the same lifestyle as the notorious killer of young men and women. Also, Charlie Manson liked to have sex with women instead of men, just like Vuk. Note that I am not saying Vuk is like Charlie Manson, I'm just mentioning the two of them repeatedly in the same sentence.

See the problem? Bringing up Hitler is a bit of a loaded thing to do, no matter how many empty disclaimers you slap over it.

[Fixiwee]

we can also discuss whether Hitler was a socialist. Two classics, in one, yeah!

Well he pretty much was. Nationalsocialist party has the word socialist in it.

Plus the colour red in the swastika-flag was chosen for a reason since they understood themselfs partly as a party for workers. But that's rather irrellevant, I admit.

[HoreTore]

I'm very happy to live in a country where nobody carries a gun. As strange as it may sound to some of you, I feel safer knowing there's no chance to get shot.

[Vuk]

No worries, mate. Calling a Godwin isn't necessarily an accusation; just an observation that over time, in any given thread, on any given topic, somebody will refer to Hitler or Nazi's. It happens here in the backroom all the time, especially in the threads that go beyond 3 pages.

Joking, Banquo's Ghost called a Godwin because of the depth and passion of your post that mentions Hitler. Continuing the joke, I pointed out how quickly Der Fuehrer was invoked.

To the topic: I read recently a movement within ATF to work up plans to somehow register ammunition. What is a gun, without bullets? Avoids the whole 2nd Am'nt thingee.

Same horse, different colour. I think that the main move behind that is that it would discourage people from buying guns because ammunition would be too expensive. If it is the same thing that I read about, it would bring the cost of a single bullet up to over a dollar. That is absurd and certainly infringes of someone's right to keep and bear arms.

Um, okay Vuk. Turnabout is fair play: the Son of Sam serial killer lived with his parents, much like Vuk. I am specifically not saying that Vuk is like the Son of Sam, but he is engaging in much the same lifestyle as the notorious killer of young men and women. Also, Charlie Manson liked to have sex with women instead of men, just like Vuk. Note that I am not saying Vuk is like Charlie Manson, I'm just mentioning the two of them repeatedly in the same sentence.

See the problem? Bringing up Hitler is a bit of a loaded thing to do, no matter how many empty disclaimers you slap over it.

Actually, that would not work, because Vuk does NOT live with his parents, and you know absolutely nothing about Vuk's lifestyle. If my politics were the politics of Stalin though, and I was leader of the country, I certainly think it would be fair game to bring that up. Even if I am not a Stalin repeat, just repeating some of the same policies, even without an evil intent, could be disasterous for the country.

I'm very happy to live in a country where nobody carries a gun. As strange as it may sound to some of you, I feel safer knowing there's no chance to get shot.

No chance of getting shot eh?

[Fixiwee]

I'm very happy to live in a country where nobody carries a gun. As strange as it may sound to some of you, I feel safer knowing there's no chance to get shot.

Same here.
I mean we have a lot of hunters carring guns, but that's about it. In the city nobody carries guns and we have very little homocide by guns (little homocides in generall).
But if I was to tell that an american he would deny it and come up with facts about gun violence. Hence I leave the gun discussion to the americans. It's simply not my pie.

[InsaneApache]

You learn summat new everyday on these boards.

Hitler was a liberal! Who'd a thowt it!

[Pannonian]

Here we go again *grabs some popcorn*

Not only do we get the above classic, we can also discuss whether Hitler was a socialist. Two classics, in one, yeah!

The world would have been better off if Hitler, Stalin and Obama had been aborted. The only way Obama can redeem himself is if he supports a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

[Fixiwee]

You learn summat new everyday on these boards.

Hitler was a liberal! Who'd a thowt it!

Hu? Who said that?

edit: I guess we are derailing the topic.

[Lemur]

If my politics were the politics of Stalin though, and I was leader of the country, I certainly think it would be fair game to bring that up. Even if I am not a Stalin repeat, just repeating some of the same policies, even without an evil intent, could be disasterous for the country.

So wait, Obama is not Hitler, but he has the same policies as Stalin? And leaving our guns alone is the first sign?

You've seriously lost me.

[Vuk]

So wait, Obama is not Hitler, but he has the same policies as Stalin? And leaving our guns alone is the first sign?

You've seriously lost me.

Put the reading glasses on Lemur.

[Lemur]

I'm sorry, Vuk, but you super-extra-bonus random this morning. First you barge into a thread about how the Dems are walking away from gun control claiming that they are not, and bizzarrely link to an excerpt from Nancy Pelosi's book on ABC (a passage relating to Sala Burton battling cancer, no less). Then you make wild and unhelpful comparisons between Obama, Hitler and the Holocaust. Then you declare that you are not comparing Obama to Hitler, even though you just did. Then it tuns out you don't even know Godwin's Law or its prime corollary, which is strange.

Then somehow you work Stalin into this, while also attempting to derail the thread by starting an argument over whether or not Hitler was really a lefty Commie hippie. Then you're off an barking about ammunition prices and how it's all part of the plan to disarm the populace and send Jews to the ovens.

Dude, you are massively, epically random.

aI read recently a movement within ATF to work up plans to somehow register ammunition. What is a gun, without bullets? Avoids the whole 2nd Am'nt thingee.

Kukri, if you're going to feed this paranoia, would it be too much to ask for a source? I could just as easily say that I read somewhere that Obama intends to kill all dogs. There, see, it's fact-free and designed to freak people out.