comeback of defeated factions?

[admiral^ave]

in some mods für medieval II, defeated factions resurrect during rebellions in their old homeland
what about this feature in EB II?

[lenin96]

I think thats a good idea as well, once in my Karthadast campaign the Arverni were destroyed, then a rebellion occurred at the Arverni's previous capital, the rebels were called Arverni, it would make more sense for them to become a faction again if their major provinces rebelled.

[geala]

Haven't had MTW this feature? I still shudder when I remember. Wiping out a faction it reappeared with tons of elite unit stacks. In the end I never wiped out a faction, always left them one province.

[machinor]

MTW was absolutely fantastic and had some great unique features. If this is possible with M2TW: Kingdoms game mechanics this would certainly be very cool.

[admiral^ave]

Haven't had MTW this feature? I still shudder when I remember. Wiping out a faction it reappeared with tons of elite unit stacks. In the end I never wiped out a faction, always left them one province.

don't know, but I think it will be a nice feature for EB, anyway, the factions are well done, so why kicking them out forever of a match?

[bobbin]

If it can be done the team should definatley include this, I always hate when a faction dies off as i know i won't be seeing them again in that game.

[Skullheadhq]

Imagine that. The Yellow fevor destroyed the AS. Rebellions take place at Seleukeia. Then a mass revolution and in a glorious independence war they rewin their freedom!

[/Bean\]

Alternatively, would it be possible for, if one faction was destroyed, another would take it's place? If theres a faction limit, why not keep it at maximum all the time? Or is that not possible?

[Cyclops]

I guess some polities ahve more "staying power" because fo the underlying ethnic/economic/religious reasons for them to exist. I reckon there should always be some sort of HA factions swarming on the steppes, ready to explode. They may not be very strong but whoever conquers that area will have to deal with the possibility of a resurgent Skythian, rebellious Parthian or insurgent Yueh-zhe mob.

On the other hand once the Carthagians got the bullet there wasn't much of a squeak AFAIK. Likewise most of the Diadochi were quite unlamented. The idea mentioned above of a "popular Seleucid uprising" seems really unlikely to me.

I wonder if its possible to make some factions ressurectable (but not others, a la EU2). That would give you the sense of recurrent trouble spots (eg Arminius=a re-emerging German faction).

I'd argue for a basic set of Thracian (definitely) German Spanish Gallic factions, at least one Greek (Mako's? they recovered form being almost wiped by the Gauls and Epirotes) maybe Saba, anywhere there was a strong independent streak. Greek city states of some sort (although perhaps their time was done)? Armenia perhaps? But not Pontos I guess.

As a joker in the pack I'd suggest a (alt*historical) Persian faction, just as a threat to whoever takes the Iranian heartland. I know they re-appear outside the EB timeframe, but it'd make an interesting strategic threat for Seleucids and Parthians to face.

[Belisarius II]

Wouldn't adding this feature use up the total faction limit? I believe so considering the fact that these defeated factions coming back would be emergent factions, no?

[bobbin]

Don't think its be possible to have new factions emerge to replace defeated ones as the factions in a game are defined by the desc_strat etc it would just have to be the old ones.

As for which factions could be re-emergent definately all the "barbarian" factions (Arverni, Aedui, Casse, Sweboz, Lusotanna, Getai) and nomad factions. As for the others Pontos would be the only one i could see not re-emerging as it was a persian dynasty ruling over a anatolian and greek population and so had no ties to thier subjects, even the AS and Ptolemiaio had regions with significant greek populations (around Antiocheia and Alexandreia) where a revolt could forseeabley restore them to power, same goes for Baktria.

As for the carthaginians I think the reason for their quiteness after being conquered was due to the severity of the roman reprisals (complete destruction of the city and enslavement of the population), mind you the phonecians were apparantly quite a accommodating bunch so might not have been the revolting type.

[Shadowwalker]

I must admit that this is the feature I liked the least in MTW.
It's adding nothing to a medieval game when the factions you destroyed come back again and again and again...
Annoying, nothing else it was.

For EB I could imagine to implement it for a few particular factions (germanic and celtic tribes for example). But I don't want to see re-emerging AS, Epeiros, SPQR or Quart-Hadast. *shudders*

[lenin96]

But if Epeiros rebelled in real life would they have possibly came back as a faction? The same with the Romani and Kart-Hadast.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

There will be no emerging factions in EB and definately no shadow factions. Being a possible player in 272 or just afterwards was one of the considerations for factions being added to EBII. The semi-permanent faction list has already been decided upon and work has gone into these factions.

Depending on what it requires to make a faction re-emerge is what will decide if there will be reemerging factions. At one point I heard that in order to have a reemerging faction it required the faction to be hording. It would be kind of stupid if the Seleukids conquer the last Ptolemaic settlement and thousands of Ptolemaic soldiers appear out of nowhere and start to wander the map.

[Shadowwalker]

Exactly.
That's the main point why I don't want a "civilized" faction to have the ability to re-emerge.
Nomads, Gauls or German... yes. Caesar got some pretty surprises out of the fact that it didn't suffice to conquer the settlements since his opponents just left them and walked away.

It would still be a very annoying feature (at least to me) but it wouldn't be a fantasy feature.
If Seleucids or Macedons would horde ... well, I believe, such features are to expect in EF (Europa Fantasmagorum) but not in EB.

[Leão magno]

But re-emerging would be really nice to all the factions if hording is not required. Even if it is required it would be possible to some factions that were nomads

[Cute Wolf]

Pretty cool!!! The nomads will rule the land...

But I think that's mean that if the Phalavan are beaten, they will spring out as Parni again...