Just how messed up is Israel?

[tibilicus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7987317.stm

Now, im a man who believes in justice and everything but come on, I can't think of any other so called western democracy where the relatives of a murderer have to suffer in such a way.

What's the actual purpose of this? It's not going to deter any one...

Personally for me this is even more hilarious as the guy wasn't even a militant or anything, he acted alone yet his family now suffers. Imagine in any other country if your brother who had serious mental issues killed someone and as a result the police came an bulldozed your house..

[HoreTore]

Israel isn't a democratic state, Israel is a racist state.

And I doubt things will get better now that they've got a fascist in government...

[Fragony]

Israel isn't a democratic state, Israel is a racist state.

And I doubt things will get better now that they've got a fascist in government...

Yet we have to respect rediculously racist hamas because it was democratically elected, the double standard hits again. I don't agree with destroying homes of terrorists family's by the way. Nope things aren't going to be better but frankly they have it comming.

[tibilicus]

Yet we have to respect rediculously racist hamas because it was democratically elected, the double standard hits again. I don't agree with destroying homes of terrorists family's by the way. Nope things aren't going to be better but frankly they have it comming.

I don't think any one can support Hamas as an organization. The people of Gaza did elect them however so I guess it's their responsibility to live with the result of electing them..

Also to comment on the new government I agree totally. I think when you have ministers who actually want to expand the west bank settlements you have a serious problem..

[HoreTore]

Also to comment on the new government I agree totally. I think when you have ministers who actually want to expand the west bank settlements you have a serious problem..

The settlers are in my opinion a completely legitimate military target, just like a soldier. They are invaders and occupiers, to not be able to fight against that would be ridiculous. They're not weedy civilians, these people are extremists, terrorists and invaders, and should be dealt with as such.

Oh, and here's the real gem: What happens when the palestinians performs collective punishment, just like Israel has done for decades?

@Frags: When you have two different set of punishment for the same crime, one for one ethnic group and the other for another ethnic group, I fail to see how that can be called anything but racism.

As for dealing with Hamas and Israel; you have to have one plan for each tyrant, there is no "one solution" that can be applied to every situation. Hamas showed willingness to moderate themselves in exchange for more international support. Israel commits even worse atrocities when they gain more international support.

[Fragony]

Oh, and here's the real gem: What happens when the palestinians performs collective punishment, just like Israel has done for decades?

How could you call indiscriminate terror attacks any different then collective punishment? They have been collectively punishing Israel for decades. They would punish the Israeli's very collectively if they had the means.

@Frags: When you have two different set of punishment for the same crime, one for one ethnic group and the other for another ethnic group, I fail to see how that can be called anything but racism.

It would be helpful if you specified the crime, what crime. And even if the Israeli's have gotten a little racist, I don't blame them. What comes around goes around, I have zero sympathy and pity for the Palestinians, if they can't control their primitive bloodlust someone will have to do it for them.

[Incongruous]

The settlers are in my opinion a completely legitimate military target, just like a soldier. They are invaders and occupiers, to not be able to fight against that would be ridiculous. They're not weedy civilians, these people are extremists, terrorists and invaders, and should be dealt with as such.

Oh, and here's the real gem: What happens when the palestinians performs collective punishment, just like Israel has done for decades?

@Frags: When you have two different set of punishment for the same crime, one for one ethnic group and the other for another ethnic group, I fail to see how that can be called anything but racism.

As for dealing with Hamas and Israel; you have to have one plan for each tyrant, there is no "one solution" that can be applied to every situation. Hamas showed willingness to moderate themselves in exchange for more international support. Israel commits even worse atrocities when they gain more international support.

Thank god for some critical thinking here, to equate sttlers with civilians is bogus, they are weapon used by Israel in an underhadn way in order to steal land. Invaders is an apt name for them, they are armed and dangerous, they are racist to the extreme and have no qualms about murdering Palestinians, scum.

Lol at the finger pionting Frags, why do you think Hamas hates Jews?
The blatant fascism of Israel is a good starting point.

[rory_20_uk]

Israel just has different tenants of faith compared to almost any other country:

We are no all equal. Jews are more important than everyone else.
Not all countries are equal. Israel is more important than anywhere else.

So it's the good old "one of us is worth 1,000 of them" mentality that was seen in WW2.

Israel doesn't trust other countries to help Jews. Our track record is pretty poor, so they'll do it, and doing so is more important than the rights of anyone else.

[rvg]

Israel isn't a democratic state, Israel is a racist state.

And I doubt things will get better now that they've got a fascist in government...

Israel and the Palestinians truly deserve each other.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

What you expect them to do? Open up everything again and give everything up? God Forbid if they kill someone, but it's Ok if.... Meh. I don't feel sorry for the attack, I feel sorry for Israel for having to put up with this crap.

[HoreTore]

What you expect them to do? Open up everything again and give everything up? God Forbid if they kill someone, but it's Ok if.... Meh. I don't feel sorry for the attack, I feel sorry for Israel for having to put up with this crap.

They should conquer a piece of Europe instead, we've been the ones doing the majrity of the jew-killings. A piece of Spain(inquisition) or germany(hitler) seems most appropriate.

I do wonder, however, what would've happened if Lenin had lived for 5 more years, and he had successfully created a jewish state in Russia?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

They should conquer a piece of Europe instead, we've been the ones doing the majrity of the jew-killings. A piece of Spain(inquisition) or germany(hitler) seems most appropriate.

Well really, the UK and then the UN established the Jewish state more than it was "conquered"...

I do wonder, however, what would've happened if Lenin had lived for 5 more years, and he had successfully created a jewish state in Russia?

Probably pogrom'd by Stalin.

[Sheogorath]

Well really, the UK and then the UN established the Jewish state more than it was "conquered"...

The British do have a bad habit of invading people and drawing silly lines on the map.

I find it endlessly amusing that the state which was probably most tolerant of Jews prior to the creation of Israel was the Ottoman Empire. But I guess they were too busy hunting down Kurds and Armenians.

You know, maybe the best solution to the whole Middle East problem is to just revive the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure Mehmet the sixth has some heirs floating around somewhere.

Plus, it'll give the Russians something to do to.

All of the worlds problems solved in one go! I'm a genius!

[Vuk]

I am a strong supporter of Israel's right to exist, and I think certain muslim groups have been infringing on it, and Israel should not get in trouble for defending its self. At the same time, I know that Israel is far from perfect. They have a messed up economic structure that teeters of communism and doesn't work for . If they had to change it to survive, they would. Like...say...the west would stop enabling them... I think we should definately support them against those who infringe on their rights, but I also think that we should stop enabling them. We are providing military security for ever European country as it is, but we have to, cause if those worthless places fall (no offense to Europeans, I am talking about the worthless militaries, not the people), our chance of success in any war will be greatly hindered. We cannot do anything about Europe cause they got us by the (not that it will really help them in the long run. It will only end up hurting us all), but Israel we can do something about. We should slowly cut the aid to Israel, before dropping it off flat. We should still aid them militarily when enemies are infringing on their right to survive, because they are our allies, but they should be our allies, not leeches stuck onto us. Sorry if this sounds harsh, I got family in Israel (one of the reasons I know what a hole it is :P) and am a strong supporter of Israel and think we should definately help it, I just think that our allies should act like allies and help us in return. As long as we enable them, they will never really be of any strength to help us, because we will be the ones always helping them. I do not blame the people, but the government.

[Tribesman]

"Instead, under international law, East Jerusalem is considered to be occupied territory."

Yes Fragony , so is the Golan and the farms , so currently is Gharjar , previously so was large parts of Lebanon and the Sinai .
That why they are not in the human rights report which deals only with Israel , you know the report that says to are talking complete rubbish when you say "Within Israel's borders arabs have the same rights. "
Only a complete fool would even try to claim that when even Jews within Israel don't have the same rights if they are the "wrong" kind of Jew .

Did you think all this started with the sixth day war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7GdviIsjQ

Wow the Mufti wanted an alliance with Hitler , thats compelling stuff , errrr....who was that Yitzhak Shamir fella who wanted an alliance with Hitler too ?
Nice video , far too many factual errors though to be taken seriously .

hear it from the good man himself, Fitna

that piece of crap by Wilders

http://middleeastfacts.com/weblog/is...s-before-1948/

Wow that only includes a small number of attacks over a short period and contains absolutely none of those perpetrated by Zionist terrorists, nice and balanced isn't it

[KarlXII]

You know, maybe the best solution to the whole Middle East problem is to just revive the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure Mehmet the sixth has some heirs floating around somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ertugrul_Osman_V