Just how messed up is Israel?

[tibilicus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7987317.stm

Now, im a man who believes in justice and everything but come on, I can't think of any other so called western democracy where the relatives of a murderer have to suffer in such a way.

What's the actual purpose of this? It's not going to deter any one...

Personally for me this is even more hilarious as the guy wasn't even a militant or anything, he acted alone yet his family now suffers. Imagine in any other country if your brother who had serious mental issues killed someone and as a result the police came an bulldozed your house..

[HoreTore]

Israel isn't a democratic state, Israel is a racist state.

And I doubt things will get better now that they've got a fascist in government...

[Fragony]

Israel isn't a democratic state, Israel is a racist state.

And I doubt things will get better now that they've got a fascist in government...

Yet we have to respect rediculously racist hamas because it was democratically elected, the double standard hits again. I don't agree with destroying homes of terrorists family's by the way. Nope things aren't going to be better but frankly they have it comming.

[tibilicus]

Yet we have to respect rediculously racist hamas because it was democratically elected, the double standard hits again. I don't agree with destroying homes of terrorists family's by the way. Nope things aren't going to be better but frankly they have it comming.

I don't think any one can support Hamas as an organization. The people of Gaza did elect them however so I guess it's their responsibility to live with the result of electing them..

Also to comment on the new government I agree totally. I think when you have ministers who actually want to expand the west bank settlements you have a serious problem..

[HoreTore]

Also to comment on the new government I agree totally. I think when you have ministers who actually want to expand the west bank settlements you have a serious problem..

The settlers are in my opinion a completely legitimate military target, just like a soldier. They are invaders and occupiers, to not be able to fight against that would be ridiculous. They're not weedy civilians, these people are extremists, terrorists and invaders, and should be dealt with as such.

Oh, and here's the real gem: What happens when the palestinians performs collective punishment, just like Israel has done for decades?

@Frags: When you have two different set of punishment for the same crime, one for one ethnic group and the other for another ethnic group, I fail to see how that can be called anything but racism.

As for dealing with Hamas and Israel; you have to have one plan for each tyrant, there is no "one solution" that can be applied to every situation. Hamas showed willingness to moderate themselves in exchange for more international support. Israel commits even worse atrocities when they gain more international support.

[rory_20_uk]

Israel just has different tenants of faith compared to almost any other country:

We are no all equal. Jews are more important than everyone else.
Not all countries are equal. Israel is more important than anywhere else.

So it's the good old "one of us is worth 1,000 of them" mentality that was seen in WW2.

Israel doesn't trust other countries to help Jews. Our track record is pretty poor, so they'll do it, and doing so is more important than the rights of anyone else.

[Fragony]

Oh, and here's the real gem: What happens when the palestinians performs collective punishment, just like Israel has done for decades?

How could you call indiscriminate terror attacks any different then collective punishment? They have been collectively punishing Israel for decades. They would punish the Israeli's very collectively if they had the means.

@Frags: When you have two different set of punishment for the same crime, one for one ethnic group and the other for another ethnic group, I fail to see how that can be called anything but racism.

It would be helpful if you specified the crime, what crime. And even if the Israeli's have gotten a little racist, I don't blame them. What comes around goes around, I have zero sympathy and pity for the Palestinians, if they can't control their primitive bloodlust someone will have to do it for them.

[HoreTore]

It would be helpful if you specified the crime, what crime. And even if the Israeli's have gotten a little racist, I don't blame them. What comes around goes around, I have zero sympathy and pity for the Palestinians, if they can't control their primitive bloodlust someone will have to do it for them.

Let's say, oh I don't know; terrorism?

Does the state of Israel bulldoze the homes of the families of jewish terrorists?

[Fragony]

Let's say, oh I don't know; terrorism?

Does the state of Israel bulldoze the homes of the families of jewish terrorists?

Jewish terrorists I see, so again, what crime. And yes Israel bulldozes the homes of Jewish settlers. Serves them right as well in many a case.

[HoreTore]

Jewish terrorists I see, so again, what crime. And yes Israel bulldozes the homes of Jewish settlers. Serves them right as well in many a case.

The crime of terrorism? If you want a specific one, there's a bunch of them to choose from. But hey, let's take the assassinations of Jewish human rights advocates that took place last fall(if memory serves right).

And I can't think of a time they bulldozed their home in retaliation, just when they decided to shut down a settlement(only to build a new one somewhere else, of course).

[Dutch_guy]

hmm wait, never mind.

[Fragony]

The crime of terrorism? If you want a specific one, there's a bunch of them to choose from.

Sure there are but on a scale like that, been a while. You see arab-Israeli have the same rights as jewish-Israeli, not a racist state. There are problems, yes. Having to be afraid a rocket lands on your head does that to people but I guess that only applies for Palestinians.

[HoreTore]

You see arab-Israeli have the same rights as jewish-Israeli, not a racist state.

They do? Enjoy reading this.

Institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against Israeli Arabs, non-Orthodox Jews, and other religious groups continued.

The government maintained unequal educational systems for Arab and Jewish students.

But, I guess the Bush administration were lost in "leftie lalaland".... Those darn hippies.

[Fragony]

So? We native dutch are discriminated against every day. No problem if muslim immigrants cheer 'all jews on the gas', if I would say something similar about muslims I would be mauled by the red machine until I cough up blood. If Israel is a racist state so is just about every western nation.

edit: didn't even click on article when I posted that, 'occupied territory', says enough. A country occupying land after a war that it didn't even provoke, outragious who would have thought. There is no official peace it's a cease fire. Within Israel's borders arabs have the same rights. Outside Israel's borders 'rights' lol.

[HoreTore]

We native dutch

Cry me a river, hippie.

[Hooahguy]

horetore, i love it how you call israel a racist state. i suppose you think its apartheid as well?
i wish i could respond more to this, but im leaving soon for NY for passover.
ah well.
try not to let the insults close this thing down before i get back in 2 weeks.
ha, like thats likely!

[Fragony]

Cry me a river, hippie.

bleed me one, that is what the Palestinians want after all.

[Tribesman]

edit: didn't even click on article when I posted that, 'occupied territory', says enough.

Errrr ...it says Israel and the occupied territories , but if you bother to read it instead of just dismissing it because obviously it proves you completely wrong you will find that it only deals with human rights in Israel itself and there is a seperate document that details the human rights problems in the occupied territories .

A country occupying land after a war that it didn't even provoke

Is that the occupied land from the war that started when Israel attacked its neighbours ?

Within Israel's borders arabs have the same rights.

You really havn't got a clue have you , within Israels borders even Jews don't have the same rights if they are the "wrong" kind of Jew .

Well done Hore , only someone with their head up their posterior would really try and counter that , and only someone with their head stuck so far up there for so long that they have forgotten what daylight is would attempt to counter it without even reading it .

[rvg]

Israel isn't a democratic state, Israel is a racist state.

And I doubt things will get better now that they've got a fascist in government...

Israel and the Palestinians truly deserve each other.

[Fragony]

1 i know it does, could it be that that is why I mentioned it.
2 well obviously not.
3 all the same for the law, ethiopian jews as well.

3 in a row, congratulations that qualifies as a faillure spree.

[Tribesman]

1 i know it does, could it be that that is why I mentioned it.

So you mentioned it in relation to the contents of the report because it isn't in the report .

2 well obviously not.

So you mean the occupied territories that are not the occupied territories .
OK Frag , so where are these mythical lands you are on about ?

3 all the same for the law, ethiopian jews as well.

You really havn't got the faintest idea what you are on about .

3 in a row, congratulations that qualifies as a faillure spree.

Yes frag , as usual you are on an epic spree where your bullexcrement miserably fails to match fact .

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

who tried to run over officers guarding the demolition of a home

I don't know, a man tries to run over you with a car with the intention of killing you, what are you going to do if you're a police officer?

[HoreTore]

I don't know, a man tries to run over you with a car with the intention of killing you, what are you going to do if you're a police officer?

Get out of the way?

There's a reason we don't trust police officers to carry guns around here

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Get out of the way?

Then he just turns around and comes back. This is self-defence by the officers in question, and I can't say much more but to deal with it. Maybe his home was knocked down unjustly, OK, I'm not saying it was or it wasn't. But if my home is knocked down, and I step outside with a steak knife and start charging officers, I should expect - and this is harsh - or even deserve to be shot.

[Hax]

To expand on the point that HoreTore made, even a country like Iran defends the rights of Jews living in the Islamic republic of Iran. Association with Israel is not tolerated, being Jewish is, contrary to the apparent rights of Israeli Arabs in Israel.

bleed me one, that is what the Palestinians want after all.

Awesome you know the wishes of all Palestinians.

So? We native dutch are discriminated against every day. No problem if muslim immigrants cheer 'all jews on the gas', if I would say something similar about muslims I would be mauled by the red machine until I cough up blood. If Israel is a racist state so is just about every western nation.

What exactly do you mean with "native Dutch"? People that have been born and raised in Dutchistan?

[KarlXII]

Awesome you know the wishes of all Palestinians.

I think Fragony is a Palestinian immigrant to the Netherlands. It's all an act guys, game's over. Time to go home.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Love ya Frag

What exactly do you mean with "native Dutch"? People that have been born and raised in Dutchistan?

This I wonder as well. Define "native", there are, for example, Native Americans and native Americans. Same as the Dutch, if you mean "born in the Netherlands", then you'll find a lot of your multicultural enemies are natives.

[Fragony]

So you mentioned it in relation to the contents of the report because it isn't in the report .

well I mentioned it because these laws don't apply to occupied territory, which makes;

So you mean the occupied territories that are not the occupied territories .
OK Frag , so where are these mythical lands you are on about ?

kinda silly if not impossible, yes they are occupied, can't just decide that I don't think it is occupied land, when was de decision made, and how?



Don't you choke.

Yes frag , as usual you are on an epic spree where your bullexcrement miserably fails to match fact.

Once again you end up talking to yourself

[HoreTore]

kinda silly if not impossible, yes they are occupied, can't just decide that I don't think it is occupied land, when was de decision made, and how?

Israel isn't an occupied territory. Gaza and the west bank is. That decision was made some decades ago...

[Fragony]

Israel isn't an occupied territory. Gaza and the west bank is. That decision was made some decades ago...

OH REALLY. And in these area's different laws apply ffs read

[HoreTore]

OH REALLY. And in these area's different laws apply ffs read

Yes, and that's why we're just talking about Israel itself, not gaza or the west bank. Just like that report is on Israel itself, not gaza or the west bank.