Swords in the Moon [Concluded]

[Gregoshi]

Plus, this being such a special game, I want to get this right.

This sentiment would have been more helpful had it come several days ago when there was still a town.

I can be talked into GH and w&f as scum (heck, I could be convinced of just about anyone ).

But for the sake of finding support for such a stance, w&f has come to the aid of GH twice when he appeared in trouble.

1. GH "seems" innocent: post #2011
2. In post #1508 w&f dismisses case against GH because it was revealed another samurai didn't bow to Shingen - and ignoring the shaming of his opponent.

As for GH, his prime case, in my eyes, come from within and outside the game:

1. His shaming of his opponent and not bowing to Shingen during his first duel.
2. From outside this game, GH is the "godfather" of the mafia games here at the Org, correct? It would make sense he'd have a special role in the 10th Anniversary game, i.e. the godfather role of master ninja. As support, it appears to me that Sasaki has had a notorious reputation in mafia games and he ends up with the secret Shingen role. Why not another key vet player taking the role opposite him?

That is about all I have and except for maybe point #2 against GH, they can all be counter-argued.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, I'm not going to change my vote, that much is certain. I'm confident Rhyfelwyr is our man. Whether I get lynched or woad or anybody else, it doesn't matter, because it's still not Rhyf.

woad and I have no connection in this game. We exchanged PMs once - last round - and that was it. He asked me what I was doing, I told him (I wasn't sure/I needed to think). End communications.

I do request that the people actually read my allegations against Rhyfelwyr as if they were made by a dead townie trying to help, and not go into it looking for ways to point to my guilt.

[Gregoshi]

The problem, GH, is there is so little solid info on anyone and you can make a case against most all the survivors - just as you can refute most of the cases. Take yours against Rhyfelwyr. Sure he is the only surviving pever, but there were four pevers and only three allowed ninja kills per night. That left the lone surviving pever looking might suspicious, so leaving Rhyfelwyr alive as a false suspect would be advantageous for the ninja.

Any case building going on is simply to give some justification to a decision that is nigh impossible to make. However, for lack of anything else to go on, I'm liking the idea of the godfather of Org mafia games playing the godfather in a very special anniversary game. I've had this feeling for a while that the role selection process wasn't all random. Associating you with the master ninja role didn't click until a short while ago. I could be totally off base, but then, it doesn't matter what I think because I'm dead and can't vote.

I'm anxiously awaiting the end of the game though.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks for responding, because this means I get to hammer a couple of points in.

First of all, I believe there were two surviving pevers IIRC: Rhyf and YLC. YLC was also quickly disposed of.
Secondly, my case is more than just the pever thing. Rhyf also got very agitated when people pointed out he was the last of the pevers earlier, and also, his activity skyrocketed when he got in trouble. To me, Rhyfelwyr's behavioral quirks outweigh the possibility of him being left alive to be lynched.

And yes, whoever the mafia are, they've played a great game and probably deserve to win, regardless of what actually happens.

[TinCow]

The problem, GH, is there is so little solid info on anyone and you can make a case against most all the survivors - just as you can refute most of the cases. Take yours against Rhyfelwyr. Sure he is the only surviving pever, but there were four pevers and only three allowed ninja kills per night. That left the lone surviving pever looking might suspicious, so leaving Rhyfelwyr alive as a false suspect would be advantageous for the ninja.

This isn't correct. YLC was also a pever. After the 'pever massacre' there were two pevers left, Rhy and YLC. It's worth noting that early in the game I was getting scum-vibes from Rhy. If you read his responses to my accusations, he was extraordinarily defensive and reactionary.

The only reason he wasn't lynched right then and there was because he posted his role PM after I encouraged him to do so. At the time, this was accepted as proof of innocence, since we didn't know that Andres had given out cover role PMs. Since we now know that cover role PMs were indeed given to those with roles, Rhy's entire defense has evaporated. He remains as someone who has acted scummy the entire game and is a very decent lynch choice.

[TinCow]

On review, it seems Rhy wasn't saved by posting his role PM. That happened after the lynch. Instead, Rhy was saved by atheotes, who broke the tie and put TosaInu ahead in the votes with about 30 minutes to spare. This is the same atheotes who was killed in a duel when both duelists were 'ordered' to commit seppuku instead of fighting. Does no one find it strange that of all the duels we've had, this particular one resulted in no battle and the death of both combatants? Could it be that this is what happens when a ninja ends up in a duel?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

On review, it seems Rhy wasn't saved by posting his role PM. That happened after the lynch. Instead, Rhy was saved by atheotes, who broke the tie and put TosaInu ahead in the votes with about 30 minutes to spare. This is the same atheotes who was killed in a duel when both duelists were 'ordered' to commit seppuku instead of fighting. Does no one find it strange that of all the duels we've had, this particular one resulted in no battle and the death of both combatants? Could it be that this is what happens when a ninja ends up in a duel?

However, neither quintus nor rhyfelwyr voted for tosa.

[atheotes]

On review, it seems Rhy wasn't saved by posting his role PM. That happened after the lynch. Instead, Rhy was saved by atheotes, who broke the tie and put TosaInu ahead in the votes with about 30 minutes to spare. This is the same atheotes who was killed in a duel when both duelists were 'ordered' to commit seppuku instead of fighting. Does no one find it strange that of all the duels we've had, this particular one resulted in no battle and the death of both combatants? Could it be that this is what happens when a ninja ends up in a duel?

Tincow, i am (was) just a samurai (not even veteran ).... the way i understood the reason for seppuku was that... Shingen had died the night before and the scroll in his hand was forged...because the scroll was not picked till he came to the courtyard in the morning... not sure if it was Andres giving extra help to the mafia or allowed in game rules as a one-time special power...

if i was ninja Andres forgot to let me know

[Dutch_guy]

Does no one find it strange that of all the duels we've had, this particular one resulted in no battle and the death of both combatants? Could it be that this is what happens when a ninja ends up in a duel?

It's more plausible that this was an event connected to the murder of Shingen, as only that particular duel after his death ended in a suicide.

[TinCow]

It's more plausible that this was an event connected to the murder of Shingen, as only that particular duel after his death ended in a suicide.

I disagree. First, the suicides can't simply be a change in the way the game works after Shingen is dead, since there have been normal duels since that time. Second, this wasn't something that was actually ordered by Shingen himself, as neither Sasaki nor CA have said anything about this, and I have not seen any evidence that either of them had any control over the duels. Perhaps if one of them had the ability to order a double suicide on a particular night I would believe it, but there is no evidence at all that that was what occurred.

So what we're left with is Andres choosing on his own to cause a double suicide at that particular moment. If both of the deaths were townies, this seems monumentally unfair against the town on a night when we also lost the person we were all supposed to be protecting. I think it is far more likely that it was a planned event that would happen when scum showed up in a duel.

[atheotes]

Someone correct me if i am wrong...

we have 6 people alive...

if we have 2 ninjas - lets say we get the right lynch... the other ninja still gets 3 kills (including any that have challenged him)... only 2 people alive with one of them ninja = Game Over already

unless: there is a probability that we get the lynch right and also get 4 people to challenge the 2nd ninja....which case the ninja will kill 3 of them and will have to duel the last townie to determine victory....


maybe there is only one ninja left alive or Andres is just playing with us....

another point to note: last night it was only one killer at every scene - as opposed to 2 killers in a couple of the previous nights....

am i thinking straight or do i need to go get some sleep?

[atheotes]

Someone correct me if i am wrong...

we have 6 people alive...

if we have 2 ninjas - lets say we get the right lynch... the other ninja still gets 3 kills (including any that have challenged him)... only 2 people alive with one of them ninja = Game Over already

unless: there is a probability that we get the lynch right and also get 4 people to challenge the 2nd ninja....which case the ninja will kill 3 of them and will have to duel the last townie to determine victory....


maybe there is only one ninja left alive or Andres is just playing with us....

another point to note: last night it was only one killer at every scene - as opposed to 2 killers in a couple of the previous nights....

am i thinking straight or do i need to go get some sleep?

Would anyone be kind enough to comment on this?

[Gregoshi]

Okay, I stand corrected that Rhyfelwyr wasn't the only surviving pever. I had recalled a list of pevers and remember only seeing four names on the list. my bad. However, YLC wasn't "quickly disposed of". He died in a duel two days after the pever massacre.

Regardless, after 100+ posts in this game and not one useful contribution to it, it is time my spirit moves on to a better place (News of the Weird thread) and stop wasting your time. I'll still follow the game to its end and participate in the post-mortem, but I'm spent on finding ridiculous ideas to save the town and can't see how I can "contribute" anymore to the game...unless, of course, I see an opportunity for some humour.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I do request that the people actually read my allegations against Rhyfelwyr as if they were made by a dead townie trying to help, and not go into it looking for ways to point to my guilt.

I read your case on rhyf.

1. He survived the pever massacre.

You accuse him of killing all the other pever's to leave himself one of the few alive.

2. He voted LG for trying to draw attention to the fact that there were survivors.

He is upset that people point out that there are survivors?

3. He claims watching the game for a while but apparently hasn't seen anything worth commenting on. Again, I ask: How many of you guys, as mafiosi, have often had trouble creating a reasoning for voting somebody?

He lurked this game and

4. When it looked like he was going to get lynched for a while, his activity jumped and he got very agitated.

When voted he got interested?

3&4 and standard op for many people. Many people lurk (particularly this game) and most's people have a jump in activity after they are accused. You yourself claimed to be not following the game closely in the early rounds, and bumped up your activity towards the endgame.

1&2 don't make sense. There's no reason to assume he killed the pever's to create a wifom "I wouldn't have left myself as one of the few survivor's" scenario. The ninja's could only kill 3 of the pever's, so of course there are survivors. One could just as easily say that you killed the pever's because it creates a wifom as well, what with your vendetta against them.

Rhyf's vote against LG was a one liner. He didn't even reply to LG's response as far as I can see. And it's perfectly legitimate to say that it's silly to vote someone for being a surviving pever. LG was going after YLC anyway, not Rhyf.

He votes LG again next round but it's a one liner vote again. What's his plan with this as mafia supposed to be?