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Thread: How to beat chariots?
Hi.
I'm playing as Julii and I'm trying to take Britain but my full stack of Legionary cohorts and a General got devastated mainly due to a load of light chariots routing my men after 10 casualties and being able to easily destroy my Generals bodyguard. Maybe I should have varied my army a bit more..
Should I use archer auxilia to stop the chariots?
Thanks, adal8or.
I'm playing as Julii and I'm trying to take Britain but my full stack of Legionary cohorts and a General got devastated mainly due to a load of light chariots routing my men after 10 casualties and being able to easily destroy my Generals bodyguard. Maybe I should have varied my army a bit more..
Should I use archer auxilia to stop the chariots?
Thanks, adal8or.
Light Auxilia and spear auxilia should do the trick, you will take heavy casualties though.
skirmishers are good against them.
skirmishers are good against them.
Ranged attacks devastate chariots. Set your infantry to 'fire at will' and the javelins will deal with them.
Like Rhyfelwyr said, ranged attacks, especially mass archery, is your best option. Once you work through their hit points they fall pretty quickly. If you lack archers, remember that Peltasts receive a +6 bonus in their attack vs. Chariots. This make Mercenary Peltasts rather good at killing them, as they have some armour to protect themselves. Phalanxes will also slaughter chariots with ease, as long as they can attack the chariot from the front.
If both these are lacking, always remember that a stopped chariot is a dead chariot. You can mob a Chariot with any infantry and once it is bogged down it will not last long. Even Peasants will work if you have enough of them. But you will take a lot of casualties yourself.
If both these are lacking, always remember that a stopped chariot is a dead chariot. You can mob a Chariot with any infantry and once it is bogged down it will not last long. Even Peasants will work if you have enough of them. But you will take a lot of casualties yourself.
Originally Posted by SubRosa:
Like Rhyfelwyr said, ranged attacks, especially mass archery, is your best option. Once you work through their hit points they fall pretty quickly. If you lack archers, remember that Peltasts receive a +6 bonus in their attack vs. Chariots. This make Mercenary Peltasts rather good at killing them, as they have some armour to protect themselves. Phalanxes will also slaughter chariots with ease, as long as they can attack the chariot from the front.
If both these are lacking, always remember that a stopped chariot is a dead chariot. You can mob a Chariot with any infantry and once it is bogged down it will not last long. Even Peasants will work if you have enough of them. But you will take a lot of casualties yourself.
Like Rhyfelwyr said, ranged attacks, especially mass archery, is your best option. Once you work through their hit points they fall pretty quickly. If you lack archers, remember that Peltasts receive a +6 bonus in their attack vs. Chariots. This make Mercenary Peltasts rather good at killing them, as they have some armour to protect themselves. Phalanxes will also slaughter chariots with ease, as long as they can attack the chariot from the front.
If both these are lacking, always remember that a stopped chariot is a dead chariot. You can mob a Chariot with any infantry and once it is bogged down it will not last long. Even Peasants will work if you have enough of them. But you will take a lot of casualties yourself.
PHALANX!!!!!? They can stop them? Perhaps it might be a lack of armor but I threw My Spartans at one group once.... My LiL'red riding Hoods with Picks got slaughtered!.
Originally Posted by SubRosa:
If both these are lacking, always remember that a stopped chariot is a dead chariot. You can mob a Chariot with any infantry and once it is bogged down it will not last long. Even Peasants will work if you have enough of them. But you will take a lot of casualties yourself.
Seconded, any form of chariots needs mobility to be effective, without them they are as good as dead.If both these are lacking, always remember that a stopped chariot is a dead chariot. You can mob a Chariot with any infantry and once it is bogged down it will not last long. Even Peasants will work if you have enough of them. But you will take a lot of casualties yourself.
Even multi hit-points Egyptian generals bodyguard (chariot) units die a swift death in city fights against the weakest of units.
Originally Posted by Lancome:
PHALANX!!!!!? They can stop them? Perhaps it might be a lack of armor but I threw My Spartans at one group once.... My LiL'red riding Hoods with Picks got slaughtered!.
Absolutely. As long as your troops are in formation with their spears down and the chariots are coming at them head on, they will slaughter the chariots. They will never get past your spearpoints. If the chariots hit you from the back or side, or if you drop your spears and pull out swords, then it is a different story.PHALANX!!!!!? They can stop them? Perhaps it might be a lack of armor but I threw My Spartans at one group once.... My LiL'red riding Hoods with Picks got slaughtered!.
Chariots die so quickly against a phalanx it's comical. I remember sticking Militia Hoplites behind a gate once and watching the Egyptian General charge through 1 chariot at a time... 
My entire greek campaign was focused on an army of Phalanxes just marching towards the enemy. Phalanx are like a cheat code essentially. I rarely lost a land battle, but you have to direct them personally.
Originally Posted by The New Che Guevara:
My entire greek campaign was focused on an army of Phalanxes just marching towards the enemy. Phalanx are like a cheat code essentially. I rarely lost a land battle, but you have to direct them personally.
I agree, specially using Armoured Hoplites.My entire greek campaign was focused on an army of Phalanxes just marching towards the enemy. Phalanx are like a cheat code essentially. I rarely lost a land battle, but you have to direct them personally.
Archers, archers, archers. If you are playing a faction that only has generic ones, recruit 'Creeshans'. If you are playing a faction that has horse archers, they will devastate them, especially Armenia's armored version. Militia cavalry can do a number on them if properly micromanaged, just don't let them close for melee. This is for the chariot archers. For the scythed version, tie them up frontally and charge in from the sides with two other units. They rout in a heartbeat.
For the Romans, specifically, archer auxillia work fine. The Brutii have Velite Glads which have a bonus against chariots and with moderate equipment upgrades, will tear them to pieces.
For the Romans, specifically, archer auxillia work fine. The Brutii have Velite Glads which have a bonus against chariots and with moderate equipment upgrades, will tear them to pieces.
I found a good tactic for romans to use against chariots. here it is:
I'm playing a Brutii campaign and am at war with the Egyptians who use lots of chariots. at first I send out velites/light auxilia to deal with chariots. it did not work that great as the egyptians group their carts with cavalrymen-> gone are the velites, and chariots can kill them too up close.
then I tried to support the javelin infantry with cavalry of my own... bad idea too, as then the chariots will maul the cavalry and the velites still get chopped by the enemy's horse. final solution: spear infantry (mercenaries) in front, velites in the back, march forward to the chariots.... did work in a pinch
the problem of mercenary phalanxes/spearmen is that they are not available in abundance. a roman general needs to find troops of his own to deal with carts. these can be post-marian legions and auxilia. Or, if you play brutii or Scipii and get to grips with the gypos pre-marian: Triarii and Principes... principes mostly I suppose, cause triarii are usually only available shortly before the reforms.
line up your legionairy infantry as the first line in guard mode with fire-at-will on. behind them, light and archer auxilia with skirmish off (they need to stay close). triarii and Auxilia in guard mode do the trick fine, and can even win when the charge themselves. if the chariots charge, the troops on guard-mode will at least slow them or entirely stop the chariots, and the get all possible javelins thrown at them. it's still messy and if the enemy supports the chariots with axemen (egypt) or warbands (britons) it will be a hard fight, but the chariots will be gone.
rest assured, the horse-using troops of the enemy will either be at the flanks or try a retarded frontal assault, leaving a gap between them and their infantry.
if, however, the enemy keeps his chariots in reserve, do like-wise with your javelinmen. The combat infantry is mainly to stop the chariots from scything the javelineers. they can do this after beating his infantry.
I'm playing a Brutii campaign and am at war with the Egyptians who use lots of chariots. at first I send out velites/light auxilia to deal with chariots. it did not work that great as the egyptians group their carts with cavalrymen-> gone are the velites, and chariots can kill them too up close.
then I tried to support the javelin infantry with cavalry of my own... bad idea too, as then the chariots will maul the cavalry and the velites still get chopped by the enemy's horse. final solution: spear infantry (mercenaries) in front, velites in the back, march forward to the chariots.... did work in a pinch
the problem of mercenary phalanxes/spearmen is that they are not available in abundance. a roman general needs to find troops of his own to deal with carts. these can be post-marian legions and auxilia. Or, if you play brutii or Scipii and get to grips with the gypos pre-marian: Triarii and Principes... principes mostly I suppose, cause triarii are usually only available shortly before the reforms.
line up your legionairy infantry as the first line in guard mode with fire-at-will on. behind them, light and archer auxilia with skirmish off (they need to stay close). triarii and Auxilia in guard mode do the trick fine, and can even win when the charge themselves. if the chariots charge, the troops on guard-mode will at least slow them or entirely stop the chariots, and the get all possible javelins thrown at them. it's still messy and if the enemy supports the chariots with axemen (egypt) or warbands (britons) it will be a hard fight, but the chariots will be gone.
rest assured, the horse-using troops of the enemy will either be at the flanks or try a retarded frontal assault, leaving a gap between them and their infantry.
if, however, the enemy keeps his chariots in reserve, do like-wise with your javelinmen. The combat infantry is mainly to stop the chariots from scything the javelineers. they can do this after beating his infantry.
As the Julii I found that one of the most effective ways of dealing with enemy chariots when I do not have enough missile troops to handle the problem is to charge them with my general in cycles. You do not take many casualties in the initial charge so the key is to pull them back as soon as the damage from the initial charge is done. In the mean time all your pila throwing infantry should be moving forward set to fire at will while the chariots are tied up by your general. Once your general is free and a short distance away again charge the chariots again. Repeat this as often as you can without allowing your general to get bogged down in hand to hand combat. 
There are several benefits to this approach:
Now since you're fighting the britons keep in mind they bring some powerful infantry to the fight. Do not let your general get bogged down by enemy infantry while you're trying to pick apart their chariots. Once they bring infantry to the melee between your cavalry and the chariots get your general out of there! They are doing some of the work for you by reducing the mobility of their chariots.
Hope this helps.
There are several benefits to this approach:
- The casualties you take in the general's unit will be replenished without having to spend money on training costs.
- You'll exhaust the chariot units for the fight with your infantry.
- You'll inspire good combat traits in your general which will increase his effectiveness in future battles.
- This will also help you level up your general (something you should always be striving to do anyway). Your general can be a very powerful unit when used correctly.
- The morale of your front line will be greatly increased due to your general's vicinity
Now since you're fighting the britons keep in mind they bring some powerful infantry to the fight. Do not let your general get bogged down by enemy infantry while you're trying to pick apart their chariots. Once they bring infantry to the melee between your cavalry and the chariots get your general out of there! They are doing some of the work for you by reducing the mobility of their chariots.
Hope this helps.
Everyone must remember, however, that chariots only defence is their hitpoints, they have virutally no defence value. So even if you archers haven't killed enough to make that unit non-dangerous, it will die easily in melee.
I have always found that there are several ways to pwn chariots.
1. Hit them with javs, arrows, pila. They will die fast.
2. Let them run into a phalanx head on. They die instantly.
3. Let them fight your legionaries head on. After about 8 seconds in melee, you will the see the chariots start to die, even sooner if your legionaries have let loose a volly or two of pila.
Hope this helps.
1. Hit them with javs, arrows, pila. They will die fast.
2. Let them run into a phalanx head on. They die instantly.
3. Let them fight your legionaries head on. After about 8 seconds in melee, you will the see the chariots start to die, even sooner if your legionaries have let loose a volly or two of pila.
Hope this helps.
From my limited experience, it seems first impact with the chariots with cavalry causes a lot of dead chariots, but after the charge your cavalry gets absolutely massacred. 
Since its back up...
Sythced wheels churn horses into sausages.
Thick formation of spearmen, hoplites preferably.
Sythced wheels churn horses into sausages.
Thick formation of spearmen, hoplites preferably.
Originally Posted by Durfio:
. You do not take many casualties in the initial charge so the key is to pull them back as soon as the damage from the initial charge is done.
Uhm, i totally disagree also. There is a good chance your general drop dead after the impact, even you try to retreat. Beside charging, you cant even chase "routing" chariots with them.. You do not take many casualties in the initial charge so the key is to pull them back as soon as the damage from the initial charge is done.
British Chariots are pain in the ass because there are no phalanxes at the heart of the barbarian Europe.
So i go with archers and Triarii.
What if these are also not avaiable? Then buy some mercenary barbarians, and put them to the first line, and put ur legionnaires just behind them.
Barbarians will cut down by Chariots, but they will "stop them". Thats the trick. When they stopped, any infantry can ride them down from their vehicles.
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