Obama disappoints me...

[Vuk]

You are correct that some of those voting for Obama soley because of his race -- and I'd agree that the number who'll admit that motivation is likely to be smaller than the number so motivated -- are themselves practicing a brand of racism. Unfortunately, getting to the non-racist end-state you describe probably DOES involve some of this "reverse" racism. Eventually the penduluum begins to gyrate less and less wildly and we will arrive at a new, non-racist balance point. I suspect it is all an inevitable part of the process.


As to disappointment, I have to agree I am disappointed. However, given the penduluum of US politics, an Obama was almost inevitable. We'd been under GOP leadership with a "tough" foreign policy for some time. The electorate likes to mix it up a bit and, mostly, wanted someone who'd take a softer approach. They'll learn that softer isn't necessarily better and creates its own raft of problems -- just as did the harder stance effected by the Bush White House.

Racism today I think is even more inexcusable than it was in the 20's. Back then people were raised in an atmosphere and society that taught them that the other race was inhuman and inferior, so it is easier to understand why they themselves held those views (which isn't to say that it is anymore right). Today, in a society that is supposed to espouse equality and teach people to look at people for who they are and not their skin colour, it is a lot less excusable, and requires a much larger ethical jump than it did back then I think. That is why it disappoints me so much, because I expected this election to be based on the people and politics, not the race. Of course I knew that there would be a few people on either of the fringes, but for the most part I expected people not to consider race as a factor. I certainly never thought that any of my own aquaintances would make their selection because of race. It is not "reverse" racism, it is racism. It is the same vehicle, just with a different driver.
I have been so naive I think, because I always expected racism to come from the other way, because that is what I was taught. It shocked me to see it so alive in today's society, and coming from a direction I did not expect. As a person of mixed race, I feel as much hate toward McCain because of his race as Obama, and as much love of Obama because of his race as McCain. I recognise the good intent a lot of people may have had, but that does not make it anymore right. People need to think. If you are afraid that some people in society are gonna be racist, you counter it by not being racist yourself, and encouraging those you know not to be racist. Not by being racist yourself and encouraging those you know to be racist! It does not fix anything, it just takes us further from the mark.

As for policy, I think you are right about people wanting change. Unfortunately, I think people should have paid attention to the old addage "Out of the frying pan into the fire". Sure, Bush was bad and we want something different, but we should choose that something on its merit, not just because it is "different". I think we did just that though, got our feet burnt, and jumped out first chance right into the fire.

[Strike For The South]

Racism today I think is even more inexcusable than it was in the 20's. Back then people were raised in an atmosphere and society that taught them that the other race was inhuman and inferior, so it is easier to understand why they themselves held those views (which isn't to say that it is anymore right). Today, in a society that is supposed to espouse equality and teach people to look at people for who they are and not their skin colour, it is a lot less excusable, and requires a much larger ethical jump than it did back then I think. That is why it disappoints me so much, because I expected this election to be based on the people and politics, not the race. Of course I knew that there would be a few people on either of the fringes, but for the most part I expected people not to consider race as a factor. I certainly never thought that any of my own aquaintances would make their selection because of race. It is not "reverse" racism, it is racism. It is the same vehicle, just with a different driver.
I have been so naive I think, because I always expected racism to come from the other way, because that is what I was taught. It shocked me to see it so alive in today's society, and coming from a direction I did not expect. As a person of mixed race, I feel as much hate toward McCain because of his race as Obama, and as much love of Obama because of his race as McCain. I recognise the good intent a lot of people may have had, but that does not make it anymore right. People need to think. If you are afraid that some people in society are gonna be racist, you counter it by not being racist yourself, and encouraging those you know not to be racist. Not by being racist yourself and encouraging those you know to be racist! It does not fix anything, it just takes us further from the mark.

As for policy, I think you are right about people wanting change. Unfortunately, I think people should have paid attention to the old addage "Out of the frying pan into the fire". Sure, Bush was bad and we want something different, but we should choose that something on its merit, not just because it is "different". I think we did just that though, got our feet burnt, and jumped out first chance right into the fire.

Race is a false construct. ESP in America. The fact that you feel hate or love toward a race only shows individual shortcomings.

[Vuk]

Race is a false construct. ESP in America. The fact that you feel hate or love toward a race only shows individual shortcomings.

I think you missed my entire point Strike. My point was that I do not, and could not without hating myself.

[rory_20_uk]

The G20 was a public relations exercise. There was no chance for anytihng to be achieved, merely for the world leaders to get together and see what their minions had been spending the last month or so working over.

If anyone thought that the whole world was suddenly going to change they were morons. The players at this level are not easily swayed hicks. They play the long game. Many don't bother with elections, so 8 years isn't that long either way.

Obama is opening talks with Cuba. The embargo is pointless and has no place. This is a good thing.
Obama has thawed things with Iran slightly. Carrot and stick are far better than just carrot. Talk is cheap, so why not?
Obama is trying to pull out of Iraq. About time!

And what's the problem of gravitas?

The Italians have a leader with hair staples and a perm-tan who manages to hold the world record for gaffes
The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor
The French a midget who has a mandate for change unless it affects jobs or the 15 hour week
The Germans rather fittingly have a leader of indeterminate gender who nevertheless could headbutt it's way through a wall.
China has a Leader Mk III4b clone who makes the head of the bank of England appear interesting.
Russia has a puppet
South Africa has a criminal.

Obama, you look quite good all things considered!

[Tsavong]

The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor

He is not a dictator he was elected into parliament last election. Who ever leads the political party which is in power is not up to the public but members of that party just because no one in labour stood to challenge his election to leader of the labour party dose not make him a dictator.

[InsaneApache]

He is not a dictator he was elected into parliament last election. Who ever leads the political party which is in power is not up to the public but members of that party just because no one in labour stood to challenge his election to leader of the labour party dose not make him a dictator.

He is hated by everybody in the UK. I challenged anyone on these boards to defend this moron. The man not a menace, he's a disaster.

[InsaneApache]

Not Zerg, I hasten to add.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Italians have a leader with hair staples and a perm-tan who manages to hold the world record for gaffes
The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor
The French a midget who has a mandate for change unless it affects jobs or the 15 hour week
The Germans rather fittingly have a leader of indeterminate gender who nevertheless could headbutt it's way through a wall.
China has a Leader Mk III4b clone who makes the head of the bank of England appear interesting.
Russia has a puppet
South Africa has a criminal.

Genius!

Not Zerg, I hasten to add.

[Lemur]

A useful thought from The American Conservative:

If the GOP is to have any chance of reviving anytime soon, it will be by peeling off disillusioned and dissatisfied Obama supporters. Even if Obama were driving people away (so far, there is little evidence for this), the GOP still has to be able to attract them. At present, the GOP’s powers of repulsion remain far greater. So far, everything the GOP has been doing in Congress and in the media has reinforced all the habits that have pushed so many people into Obama’s arms. Shouting fascism and tyranny in ever-louder voices is not going to change this pattern, but will probably ensure that it keeps getting worse for Republicans.

[Banquo's Ghost]

A useful thought from The American Conservative:

If the GOP is to have any chance of reviving anytime soon, it will be by peeling off disillusioned and dissatisfied Obama supporters. Even if Obama were driving people away (so far, there is little evidence for this), the GOP still has to be able to attract them. At present, the GOP’s powers of repulsion remain far greater. So far, everything the GOP has been doing in Congress and in the media has reinforced all the habits that have pushed so many people into Obama’s arms. Shouting fascism and tyranny in ever-louder voices is not going to change this pattern, but will probably ensure that it keeps getting worse for Republicans.

I don't know if there are similar examples from US political history, but I'm surprised the GOP has not taken on board what happened to the British Conservative party after Tony Blair's win in 1997.

They had developed a belief in the Divine Right of Tory Government and were rather taken aback when the ungrateful peons elected a whippersnapper with no government experience in a landslide. The reaction was to despair of the idiot electorate and embark on a suicidal spiral of pandering to the extremes of the party and electing ever more wingnut leaders to ensure the core vote. It turned out that the core vote was comprised of thirteen ladies of uncertain age in Tunbridge Wells, a couple of retired colonels whose cells had been padded with yellowing copies of the Daily Mail and a dachshund named Colin. Unsurprisingly, they kept being walloped at the polls, even when standing against increasingly vacuous Bliar. Each time they got walloped, they gorged more on crazy flakes. (To steal my currently favourite meme ).

Only when David Cameron got elected to the leadership (rather accidentally, since Colin was chasing rabbits at the time and there was a jumble sale on at the Women's Institute) did the party finally start to realise that out-Blairing Blair was the way to go. Wingnuts safely retired to the hinterlands, and with the electoral gift that is Gordon Brown (and the seemingly inevitable poisonous corruption that afflicts all parties after two terms) Cameron's party is all but indistinguishable from New Labour on policy, but more importantly, says almost nothing meaningful on anything. They watch from the sidelines as the government destroys itself, safely anodyne. Cameron understands that governments lose elections, oppositions do not win them.

Fascinatingly, this is almost exactly the same evolution that the Labour Party went through when Mrs Thatcher crushed them in 1979. Being socialists, their wingnuttery knew no bounds - they got so few votes in one election that it was clear Michael Foot didn't even vote for himself. It's been said that Thatcher's greatest legacy was to disband the Labour Party forever. Tony Blair's great victory was to invent the successor party to Thatcherism, whilst the party that spawned her consumed itself.

Lessons from history. It amazes me to see experienced politicians doing the same thing all over again. Mature democracies are all about the middle ground - get a reputation for extremist lunacy and you can spend a long time in the wilderness shouting at tumbleweed.

[Adrian II]

Is this where I spout baseless accusations about Obama's personality, his family, his race or words he never said, only to be corrected by Louis or Lemur who maintain that there are different sides to an issue and that the truth might actually be worth pursuing?

Good.

I liked his Notre Dame speech on abortion. After the verbal diarrhea we were accustomed to in the past eight years or more, I was relieved to see a President looking for middle ground in this politicised debate and proposing that each side attempt to understand and meet the concerns of the other. It's only words so far, I know, but it beats grunting and throwing faeces.

[Ser Clegane]

*throws faeces at Adrian for being too middle ground*

(I think we need a new smiley for that ... but then - maybe not)

[Adrian II]

*throws faeces at Adrian for being too middle ground*

Impossible. From what I remember from the debates we used to have, you occupy the entire middle ground all by yourself.

[Ser Clegane]

you occupy the entire middle ground all by yourself.

Are you calling me fat?

On topic (to avoid having to warn myself) - my feelings are a bit mixed. There is some disappointment - partly just because expectations became so jazzed up over time that a certain let down was unavoidable - partly because there was the (unrealistic) hope that a new president might give enough impetus to miraculously provide some energy for the ailing economy.

OTOH it is nice to have a feeling of "normality" again after almost a decade of the US being unfairly and frequently associated with just the president (and I hope we will not see it the other way around now - that everybody outside the US just thinks about Obama when talking about the US).

On the specific abortion topic - let's hope - middle ground seems to be what also the majority of our US friends (on this board and elsewhere) would like to dominate the discussion in order to finally come to a compromise that ends the oscillating between extremes.

[KukriKhan]

Impossible. From what I remember from the debates we used to have, you occupy the entire middle ground all by yourself.

Impossible. Though perhaps too quiet at times, I fancy myself as having occupied Ser Clegane's middle ground shoulder-to-shoulder with him.

As have you, in the end. I observe.

The Kindergarteners vs Steelers thing: = teh bad. I'd like to think the Steelers, had they known of the conflict, would have accomodated a mutual event. Lousy PR management by 1600.

[LittleGrizzly]

If Obama can change Abortion in America to much more like what we have over here in Europe then that will quite simply be amazing.

For to long Abortion has been an issue that forces decent percentages of the electorate to stick solidly to one party, this means people will vote for the most useless of politicians simply because they check one box they feel passionately about...

This would then lead them to look at other far more important issues, like civil liberties, the economy ect.

[Xiahou]

I liked his Notre Dame speech on abortion. After the verbal diarrhea we were accustomed to in the past eight years or more, I was relieved to see a President looking for middle ground in this politicised debate and proposing that each side attempt to understand and meet the concerns of the other. It's only words so far, I know, but it beats grunting and throwing faeces.

Talk is cheap. Where's the action? Obama has been a reliable supporter of unfettered abortion on demand. Where's his middle ground? What is he giving up in compromise from his side? Nothing, from what I've seen. The speech was completely disingenuous.

[Adrian II]

Where's the action middle ground?

Fixed it.

[Xiahou]

Now here's some feces.

Sobbing Kindergarteners Snubbed for Steelers?

Thursday was supposed to be the highlight of the year for more than 100 kindergarteners from Stafford County, Va. They got up early and took a chartered bus to the White House for a school field trip. But when they arrived, all the 5-year-olds got was a lesson in disappointment.

A group of young students didn't get to tour the White House, and they say it's because of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The buses from Conway Elementary arrived at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue a little later than planned, and they were locked out.

"We were going to the White House, but we couldn’t get in so I felt sad," 5-year-old Cameron Stine said.

Parents say they were just 10 minutes late for their scheduled tour. School officials say White House staff said they needed to get ready for the president's event with the Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers, so they couldn't come in.