Red Cross Torture Report

[KukriKhan]

He did, actually... about 2-3 months ago. I saw it with my own incredulous eyeballs. And in response to someone's query.

I feel bad about the ICRC report. It wasn't supposed to be leaked; most of their other (often scathing) reports have not been - this has been what has lent those previous reports more credibility with policy-makers.

It rests completely on the unchallenged and un-cross-checked testimony of incarcerated subjects, making it too easy for powers-that-be to dismiss it as "jailhouse lawyer talk". If we wanna go after the whack-jobs who crafted law, regulation and policy to allow torture and unaccountable apprehension and imprisionment (and I, for one, do wanna), we need a better, more thorough, check-able, detailed effort. In my opinion.

"A" for intent, but "D" for content.

[Lemur]

I don't entirely agree, Kukri. When you've got guys from different countries and different training groups who've all been held in isolation, unable to communicate with each other or the outside world, all offering the same version of events, it has some credibility. I don't buy the overly convenient version where they were all drilled in what to say by their dark overlords.

If you read some of the internal AQ docs that have leaked, you'll see that they're a dysfunctional bunch of back-biters (as many small groups are), not uber-terrorist masterminds. They even succeeded in getting ripped off by a Hong Kong web hosting company, which was hilarious to read. I've got to see if I can re-locate the article where they reprinted AQ's emails; it made for a strangely amusing read.

[KukriKhan]

I'm not saying those guys were lying. Their veracity at this point is irrelevant. The premature, and (presumeably) unauthorized leak of this report, which sold a few newspapers, actually works at cross-purposes to actually investigating, identifying, indicting, prosecuting, and punishing those responsible for letting, authorizing and (maybe) ordering what should (imo) be seen as unlawful apprehensions, interrogations and imprisionments.

In other words: because this report can be dismissed so easily as an exercise in "I were framed, I was, Guv, honest!" by the American authorities who could bring charges, it delays the day when we citizens can say, with a straight face: "We don't torture. Ever. If one of us ever does, he/she is a 'loose cannon' and will be punished".

Mind: I don't blame the ICRC. They're doing what they do. I blame the leaker.