Teabagging

[Askthepizzaguy]

It doesn't matter, this is democracy. Ordinary people feeling so strongly about something that they march out on the streets.

Just what I was bemoaning the lack of a week or so back. It's wonderful.

Hey, people can do what they want. But when Fox News tries to pass it off as a "grassroots" movement that they didn't champion and sponsor, and objectively covered as news... I gotta say, that's a...

well, was going to say new low, but it's Fox News! There is no bottom to that canyon of shame.

[CountArach]

A sign at one of the rallies:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But seriously... it seems like there was quite a significant turnout overall. About 112,000 in the major rallies across the country.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hey, people can do what they want. But when Fox News tries to pass it off as a "grassroots" movement that they didn't champion and sponsor, and objectively covered as news... I gotta say, that's a...

well, was going to say new low, but it's Fox News! There is no bottom to that canyon of shame.

I couldn't care less about Fox News, especially since I don't have to watch it.

But they, and this movement, must have hit a nerve otherwise the protesters would stay at home. If people like Kukri are organising and marching, that's democracy and whether I agree with them or not, it's great to see.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The permit thing amuses me.

Didn't bother going to any baggin' ceremony though.

[Xiahou]

Hey, people can do what they want. But when Fox News tries to pass it off as a "grassroots" movement that they didn't champion and sponsor, and objectively covered as news... I gotta say, that's a...

well, was going to say new low, but it's Fox News! There is no bottom to that canyon of shame.

What would qualify as a valid grass roots movement in your mind? If it immediately becomes tainted the moment it receives and support (or exploitation) from media outlets or politicians, I'd wager we've never had a true "grassroots" movement. These people aren't professional protestors- most of them are organized via blogs, social networking sites, etc. So what if Fox News promotes them or politicians try to hitch their wagons to it? Why the disdain?

You're also completely missing the point if you think they're only upset about Obama's tax increases on the top bracket.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I just find it interesting they are up in arms NOW about fiscal irresponsibility and taxes and budget deficits, when many of them just LOVED the previous administration. Some of the same people who said that opposing Bush was unpatriotic are now saying "lynch Obama".

Sure, there's plenty of normal people who attend and have a problem with taxes, and that's great. I'd like for there to be lower taxes too. But when the country is bleeding huge amounts due to budget deficits, and we're deep, deep in debt to foreign nations, and people aren't willing to give up their social services or raise taxes, one has to wonder; exactly what solution do they want for the problem? Print some more money and de-value the dollar? Sell arms to violent regimes? Stop fighting AIDS in Africa? Perhaps they'd like to get rid of earmarks, which account for what percentage of the budget... was it 1%? Of course, we can't cut the no-bid contracts and open-ended wars... that might be unpatriotic.



I want to hear opposing viewpoints and solutions from the opposition, so the Democrats don't go crazy with power, which they will. However, the opposition has no leadership, an abysmal alternative budget proposal, no energy or healthcare plan, no end to the overseas conflicts, and their main issues seem to deal with gay people, as if everything would go away if we just made sure that gay people couldn't have equal rights as straights. Even if they dropped the gay issue, they would turn around and blame immigrants for the problem, or people on welfare. There's always a scapegoat, and never a solution. Just pandering to partisan and special interest groups, and of course, lots and lots and lots of money for states like Texas, who "oppose" the federal government but sure love taking the grand majority of what they send to Washington right back in Congressional spending.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(must, control, rant. Don't say Limbaugh... don't say Limbaugh... don't say Limbaugh...)

And Xiahou-

The tea parties were promoted by FreedomWorks, a conservative nonprofit advocacy group based in Washington and led by former Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey of Texas, who is now a lobbyist.

And Fox News sponsored it and sent all their talking heads out there to promote it. Sounds like it wasn't something that happened spontaneously. It's a political rally, but it was not a grassroots movement. But we could debate all day and I doubt we would see each other's point of view.

Democracy yes, grassroots, no, and Fox is not News.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Why limit alternatives to the "opposition"? Actual alternatives to the two party system support things like balancing the budget, either through higher taxes and/or cutting spending. But that's obviously stuff and nonsense...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why limit alternatives to the "opposition"? Actual alternatives to the two party system support things like balancing the budget, either through higher taxes and/or cutting spending. But that's obviously stuff and nonsense...

No, that makes sense. All of the above. But it would draw huge protests sponsored by Fox.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Nah, Glenn Beck would probably just call them domestic terrorists.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nah, Glenn Beck would probably just call them domestic terrorists.

I will say this; I never stooped so low as to accuse Republicans of being terrorists. Granted they did that overseas, and some anarchists and left-wing wackos did, but I've condemned such behavior every single time I've seen it. Would be nice to hear something similar; to be fair to McCain I heard him condemn that stuff against Obama. Palin sure didn't though, she encouraged it. That was a rather dubious duo.

Ok, now it's other people's turn. Show me clips of Biden saying something which directly contradicts Obama. After that line, I deserve it, and I'll cop to it.

[Xiahou]

I just find it interesting they are up in arms NOW about fiscal irresponsibility and taxes and budget deficits, when many of them just LOVED the previous administration. Some of the same people who said that opposing Bush was unpatriotic are now saying "lynch Obama".

Your hyperbole aside, you're very mistaken if you think conservative voters were happy with spending under Bush. Conservative exasperation with the GOPs spending played a significant role in their ouster.

Additionally, the scale of the deficits is also worth noting. Obama's deficits are completely dwarfing those of the Bush administration- and Bush's deficits were bad enough already.

If people were upset over Bush's deficits, how do you think they'd feel about what's coming down the pipe? Ten years from now, even using the White House's pie-in-the-sky estimates, the deficit will never go below what it was in even the highest of Bush's time in office. The CBO's projections are much more gloomy, and sadly, more realistic. A sobering thought, don't you think?

Do you think it's possible that people are so disgusted by this that they're moved to protest without being given marching orders by the vast right wing conspiracy?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why does that chart show the deficit rising after 2016 which would be Obama's last possible year in office if he was elected to a second term? There could be an actual fiscal conservative in office at that point.

[Tribesman]

If people were upset over Bush's deficits, how do you think they'd feel about what's coming down the pipe?

The thing with Bushes defecits is he went down from the surplus ofthe clinton years , while Obama inherits georges mess .
As for what people will think down the line , them CBO charts project Obama doing a deficit like Reagan had (even though he is starting in a worse position), and the "conservatives" still love Reagan .

[Strike For The South]

The thing with Bushes defecits is he went down from the surplus ofthe clinton years , while Obama inherits georges mess .
As for what people will think down the line , them CBO charts project Obama doing a deficit like Reagan had (even though he is starting in a worse position), and the "conservatives" still love Reagan .

Nukes are cooler than sick people.

[KukriKhan]

I couldn't care less about Fox News, especially since I don't have to watch it.

But they, and this movement, must have hit a nerve otherwise the protesters would stay at home. If people like Kukri are organising and marching, that's democracy and whether I agree with them or not, it's great to see.

I was dismayed to hear on radio beginning Monday, how politicians and pundits were turning this little 'germ' of an idea into a media event, complete with notable speakers, entertainment, and all the foo-foo of a partisan political clamor-fest. So, to be honest, I expected to see either a huge, staged "event", or a small group of mostly retirees - all bashing Obama, and blaming him for all their ills.

To my happy surprise, I saw neither; just my neighbors, with hand-made signs, kids-in-tow, lining my main street, and people driving by and honking approval, and about 10% of them parking nearby and joining, in a snowball effect. I saw three of my five city councillors wading through the crowd, being mostly ignored - "Good", thought I. They should see this with their own eyeballs, while not trying to exploit or lead it (I think the crowd would have shouted them down, had they tried).

For me, it wasn't about the money. There's enough blame to go 'round several times on that. Or about our wars.

Instead, this was a baby-step towards a realization that "I am not alone." Kind of a re-enfranchisement. That what I think and say and do, matters, and can have a positive effect on my civil society, and that my employees (the city, county, state & fed folks we elect) ought to pay heed.

I think, even more important, was the way the thing came together, informal, low-cost, internet announcements. I hope we can continue this kind of thing ala The Committees of Correspondence in revolutionary days.

"Trickle Up" republican democracy, if you will.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Instead, this was a baby-step towards a realization that "I am not alone." Kind of a re-enfranchisement. That what I think and say and do, matters, and can have a positive effect on my civil society, and that my employees (the city, county, state & fed folks we elect) ought to pay heed.

I think, even more important, was the way the thing came together, informal, low-cost, internet announcements. I hope we can continue this kind of thing ala The Committees of Correspondence in revolutionary days.

"Trickle Up" republican democracy, if you will.

Damn right! Frighten the government, not with guns, but with an organised citizenry refusing to be governed save with consent.

Kudos to you and your fellow citizens.

[Lemur]

I think, even more important, was the way the thing came together, informal, low-cost, internet announcements.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience, Kukri. And from what I've read, the whole tea party concept was put together by a libertarian group in Chicago.

That said, I would feel a lot more positive about this phenomenon if it hadn't been co-opted by Rupert Murdoch's propaganda arm. It just makes my skin crawl to see "reporters" on a "news channel" openly advocating a political event. There's a certain class of people who became libertarians on January 20th, 2009. For them? Nothing but contempt.

[KukriKhan]

I'm glad you had such a positive experience, Kukri. And from what I've read, the whole tea party concept was put together by a libertarian group in Chicago.

That said, I would feel a lot more positive about this phenomenon if it hadn't been co-opted by Rupert Murdoch's propaganda arm. It just makes my skin crawl to see "reporters" on a "news channel" openly advocating a political event. There's a certain class of people who became libertarians on January 20th, 2009. For them? Nothing but contempt.

No argument there - I turned on Faux News (Hannity was on) when I got home, and thought I was watching a re-run of the Dem or Repub National Convention, LOL. Buncha weiners trying to piggy-back, as far as I'm concerned. And I just watched the vid clip from the Madeaux MSNBC show; if I'd seen anybody at my rally with signs/shirts advocating hanging Congress-critters, or Obama=Hitler and the other crazy stuff she showed - I never would have gotten out of the car.

And yeah: I've heard/read Chicago, Seattle, NYC and Tampa as the originating locations of these secretly-funded by the vast right-wing conspiracy events. Bah... my check from D. Armey still hasn't arrived; stupid mailman probably kept it for himself.

I guess time will tell if this was a mere tempest in a teacup, as it were, or a consciousness-raising exercise.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have every reason to believe your first-hand experience, Kurki, but word from many, many different media sources is that these events were not as genuine and family-friendly as your experience was.

That being said, I've nothing to prove here, and I'd rather be wrong than right in this case. I'd prefer honest protests for a change, because I happen to agree that we need to balance our budget and soon. I think that Murdoch and Armey and Hannity poisoned the legitimacy of this event, from my perspective. But I am glad you had a good time.

[Tribesman]

Damn right! Frighten the government, not with guns, but with an organised citizenry refusing to be governed save with consent.

Yeah but would these fruitcakes be more frightening to the government or ordinary people .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwdOwgD5OsY
Brainwashing digital boxes????? oh and burn the books

[LittleGrizzly]

Lol, the commies!

Thats better than teabagging anyday

It starts off a little slow, I wondered where the comedy was at first, the libertarian party guy and constitution party guy where not the best speakers but not crazy... but wait until the guy after them starts speaking...

[Hosakawa Tito]

We the People Stimulus Package.

[a completely inoffensive name]

We the People Stimulus Package.

That guy gets crazy though when he starts asking for mandatory service and English as an official language.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

That guy gets crazy though when he starts asking for mandatory service and English as an official language.

Sorry, what's wrong with English as an official language?

[Proletariat]

I've never understood the people who want it as an official language for the US. What difference would it make? This isn't France, let's speak whatever we like here.

It totally skirts the issue of illegal immigration anyway.

[Lemur]

A sample of some of the signs being shown at the Tea Parties. I certainly don't blame the attendees for a few fringe lunatics with bad taste, but would you say these are better, worse or equivalent to the stuff being paraded at the anti-war rallies in '03?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'd say a little better, if only in terms of quantity. You've also got only one or two signs there, rather than, say, a whole crowd bearing them prominently. If you can find me a mass rally with everyone bearing a carbon copy of those signs, we can say equivalent.

[Lemur]

I'm not sure I understand your comment, EMFM. I watched the anti-war protests in '03 from my office window, and I never saw people carrying identical signs. If anything the protesters were a hodge-podge bunch, with little sense of unity or theme.

Could you, I don't know, source what you're saying, or clarify it in some way?

-edit-

Also, I posted five pics. How does five become "one or two"? You're really confusing me.

[LittleGrizzly]

The only one I find really shocking out of those is the bottom poster...

The first one could very well have a racist base, he could also be speaking about taxpayers having to pay for these huge defecits and it being a form of slavery, so he made it short and catchy... though obviously other races pay taxes as well so it wouldn't just be white slavery, so possibly racist possibly stupid...

The second one could come across as looking kind of racist, but what the picture is showing (in an obviously exagerated kind of way) is kind of true in that obama is spending alot of money and taxes will have to pay for this...

The third one has sexual conatations, but the message in it is basically true for the last few US presidents, as in keeping Saudi's sweet... for oil rather than jewels though... though they kind be trying to infer thats he's a muslim and thus takes instruction from the Saudi monarchy (which is slightly convuluted thinking but these people aren''t usually the clearest thinking bunch...)

Number four, who doesn't like a good hitler comparison... we use plenty here in the backroom... OTT and extreme but not wacked out crazyness... Well he could be crazy but may just be OTT and extreme...

Number 5 is completely out of line...

Something to remember people usually do exagerate with posters, they want something short, catchy and in the case of these shocking in an attempt to make thier point...

Not that that makes it right, just not nessecarily a loony behind everyone...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm not sure I understand your comment, EMFM. I watched the anti-war protests in '03 from my office window, and I never saw people carrying identical signs. If anything the protesters were a hodge-podge bunch, with little sense of unity or theme.

Could you, I don't know, source what you're saying, or clarify it in some way?

I'm talking about those big, organized anti-Bush protests. Like this. There were all kinds of examples like this all over the world, with signs comparing Bush to Hitler, the Republicans to Nazis, and so on. It seems to me that signs like that appeared with much more frequency comparing Bush to Hitler than comparing Obama to Hitler.