Sardinia: A plea for a 2nd settlement

[Tanit]

Currently available province slots are being discussed and I did put forward a bid for another Sardinian province. However, it is unlikely this will occur, so I also put forward a request for at least one PSF on the island which will be rebel and ruled by a young version of Hampsicora. He probably wasn't quite born at the time but its the closest we'll get. Also, unit slots are a little in flux but keep your fingers crossed for the addition of Nuraghe cavalry!

[Zarax]

Err... nuragic cavalry?
AFAIK that was not exactly their best side, especially considering the size of the native horses... I wouldn't have been surprised by an heavier infantry than the actual EB version TBH.

[Tanit]

The Sardinian army in our time frame is a bit difficult to concept given that descriptions of them are vague and most of the archaeological evidence for military features predates our game by a considerable margin. Admittedly in their past the Sardinians had possessed relatively heavy infantry but while I certainly don't claim to be an expert on Sardinia I have not seen evidence to suggest a heavy infantry in EB Sardinia. However, if you were to present a case with evidence of 4th to 1st century BC Sardinian heavy infantry I would try to get it in, no guarantees.

The current Sardinian unit conception is based off of the battles of the Second Punic War and the subsequent difficulties the Romans had with subdueing the island. It was during the Second Punic War that the general Hampsicora, called the leader of the Sardinians by Polybius, made use of cavalry, however the Romans routed both his infantry and cavalry and ran down the Carthaginian allies to boot. By the by, do you happen to have any images of Sardinian horses?

[Zarax]

The Sardinian army in our time frame is a bit difficult to concept given that descriptions of them are vague and most of the archaeological evidence for military features predates our game by a considerable margin. Admittedly in their past the Sardinians had possessed relatively heavy infantry but while I certainly don't claim to be an expert on Sardinia I have not seen evidence to suggest a heavy infantry in EB Sardinia. However, if you were to present a case with evidence of 4th to 1st century BC Sardinian heavy infantry I would try to get it in, no guarantees.

Well, the main problem here is that the concept of a Sardinian army is twofold.

First, what we have over there in the EB timeframe is an island where the richer parts have been occupied by the Carthaginians for quite long already, meaning that the local military forces would be liby-phoenicians and iberian rather than native in style.

The second problem with proper depiction is that you have to consider that native military development for heavier or noble forces stopped in the 6-5th century BC as did the main fortification efforts, now focused on reinforcing older sites.
This doesn't mean that there was no heavy infantry at the time but rather that what was used is a mix of imported hellenic and phoenician gear in addition to older panoplies inherited from great-grandpa of both native and etruscan (with which they traded extensively) origin. There also were iron versions of older bronze panoplies but those were quite rare.
This of course doesn't help at all because quality excavation have mostly been done on the older periods (favoured by the localistic mindset over there) and for the roman and punic excavations the dating has mostly been done by comparison rather than level of retrieval analisys.

The current Sardinian unit conception is based off of the battles of the Second Punic War and the subsequent difficulties the Romans had with subdueing the island. It was during the Second Punic War that the general Hampsicora, called the leader of the Sardinians by Polybius, made use of cavalry, however the Romans routed both his infantry and cavalry and ran down the Carthaginian allies to boot. By the by, do you happen to have any images of Sardinian horses?

Beware of the 2nd punic war descriptions as they could be misleading.
Despite the local myths Ampsicora was most likely a puno-nuragic noble or had very strong ties with the Carthaginian nobility, meaning that what was used by him is probably the local version of the civic cavalry.
Ampsicora's rebellion was the attempt of the local punic aristoracy to get back in power by calling help from Carthage and having native allied tribes and mercenaries to support them rather than a native revolt. The following resistance was fierce but faced systematic cleansing by the romans which often set forests on fire and used war dogs to hunt down the natives.

The best period to see the native forces in action is during the mercenary war, where the interior tribes actively fought the mercenary rebels and briefly had almost complete control of the entire island. It's mostly interesting to note that in that occasion the punic settlements had a mostly passive chance instead.

This is what I managed to gather from a conversation with my uncle who worked in Lilliu's team, I'll try to get some good book ISBN codes for you to check.

BTW, if you ever come to Italy I'll be glad to give you a hand in nuragic research.

[Tanit]

Sardinia is certainly an island that deserves more attention than it has right now. It lies in the expansion path of two existing factions and a number of potential factions, like Britain and Spain the natives were fiercely independant, and a decent number of engagements were fought either on it or around the coasts. It was cited during the first Punic war as the staging point for an invasion of Italy, both by the Carthaginians and then the Romans who recognized this potential in it.

Certainly if you have quotes from archaeologists (With bibliographical evidence for verification) then it would be extremely beneficial to the representation of EB Sardinia. Images would also be grand.

[Zarax]

A good case for a native PSF could be Su Nuraxi of Barumini, perhaps the best example of nuragic fortified village:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su_Nuraxi_di_Barumini
http://www.turismocortes.it/luoghi/grandi/barumini.jpg
Here's a depiction of how it looked: http://digilander.libero.it/zilibo/i...I_COMPLETO.jpg

Alternatively Losa could be a choice more in the interior: http://www.nuraghelosa.net/index.aspx?m=82&f=2&id=1
Also, here you will find a map of punic and nuragic settlements: http://www.sardegnacultura.it/docume...0402093808.pdf

Here's a few links about Nora:

www.nora.it (italian) has some pretty good info about the city in general
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora,_Italy Wikipedia has some other good info, especially on the italian version
http://www.isolasarda.com/nora-storia.htm (italian)
http://www.activsardegna.com/ichnusa...io/nora_en.htm
http://www.sardinian.net/sardegna/monumenti/nora.htm (italian)

Also, here you can find a pretty good assortment of material (again, in italian) and more than anything plenty of bibliography: http://www.sardegnacultura.it/j/v/29...=2&na=1&n=1000

And here's a quite good book for nuragic illustrations: http://www.angelademontis.it/il_popolo_di_bronzo.htm

Lastly, it appears that somebody else tried to discuss the nuragic warriors in RTW (italian): http://shardanapopolidelmare.forumco...et/?t=12656443

[Zarax]

Sorry for the necro but I think I found definite informations.
Giovanni Lilliu himself mentions Nora as the regional capital for Sardinia in one of his books.
Here's the link to the PDF, just look it up at page 181:
http://www.sardegnadigitallibrary.it...8283600006.pdf

EDIT:
Again, Lilliu proves invaluable:
http://www.sardegnacultura.it/docume...0401123725.pdf

Look for "Nuragico V", there's a mention to nuragic slingers with particularly heavy bullets (460g in average).