The reformation of Islam, part two: Political evolution

[Fragony]

So you are talking about walking round a run down with exceptionaly high crime and massive unemployment as an experiment to see if an assault happens , well I hate to shatter your illusions frag but the likelyhood of an attack in a bad area is high anywhere in the world no matter what you are dressed as .

Don't worry, it's perfectly safe, just makes sure the wive covers her ankles and wears a scarve and nobody will bother you

[Tribesman]

Don't worry, it's perfectly safe, just makes sure the wive covers her ankles and wears a scarve and nobody will bother you

I thought that was only neccesary if you went on a bus in Israel and didn't want the orthodox nuts attacking you.
Frag goes for the epic fail again .
You really make it too easy , have you ever considered actually thinking things through before you post ?

[Fragony]

I thought that was only neccesary if you went on a bus in Israel and didn't want the orthodox nuts attacking you.
Frag goes for the epic fail again .
You really make it too easy , have you ever considered actually thinking things through before you post ?

More like flawless victory. You know I am right about these area's and I know you know that I am right, you read newspapers you know what's going on there in these neighbourhoods. Everybody knows what I am talking about and if they don't they will.

Molenbeek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-inob20I_Y0
Malmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnP-XzB_U0
London https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nqxP2bpF7I

Just 3 examples, out of many.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the nostalgic re-runs of the Frag and Tribesy show, but those of us not requiring a cure for insomnia would really rather you got back to topic.

Thank you kindly

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

One Linky

[Furunculus]

ditching the hadith may be a good start, there was an article i read to that effect recently, may have been the other thread.

[Tribesman]

One Linky

one PCSO

wow after he screwed up the police have said they are going to train him
Get rid of them PCSO muppets .

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

one PCSO

wow after he screwed up the police have said they are going to train him
Get rid of them PCSO muppets .

That is entirely not the point and you know that very well. I hope.

[Tribesman]

Just 3 examples, out of many.

And for each example there are a dozen examples of non muslims doing the same so your "its the muslims" thing doesn't work .
BTW it would help your arguement if your links didn't contain lots of examples on the same page that prove my point

Thank you for the nostalgic re-runs of the Frag and Tribesy show, but those of us not requiring a cure for insomnia would really rather you got back to topic.

Well for the topic , since the fundamentalist interpretations are in history terms a fairly modern happening how about exploring how they came about , what gave rise to them ?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well for the topic , since the fundamentalist interpretations are in history terms a fairly modern happening how about exploring how they came about , what gave rise to them ?

They came about because of a reformation just like in Christianity. I can't believe I did that big write up in the other thread only for it to get locked.

Would it be relevant to repost it here for this discussion, since it seems to be related to Tribesman's point?

[Brenus]

The perception of Islam as a monolith was favoured by the so-called clash of civilisations.
Islam never was one and never be except in the dreamed Uma, the Community of the Believers.
By structure, Islam is poly, is multiple.
There is one God but no Pope.
If you have studied the Koran, had developed a doctrine which is followed by a lot a people then you are a Doctor, an Imam.

Of course, you have the immediate distinction between Sunnites and Shiites.
Each streams being divided in few branches.

The Islamist faith goes from Sufism (humanism and spirituality) to the Political Islamism (or Islamofacism) which referred to Jihad and martyrdom.
Al Qaeda belongs to the last one but is not the owner of the brand.

The Saudi branch is a legalist branch of the Political Islamism thanks to the Wahhabism, union of the sword and the book wanted by 2 men in 1774, Mohammed ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Mohammed ibn Sa'ud.
It is important to know that this branch took the Holly Place of Islam by force (1924, Abd el-Aziz conquered the Mecca, in 1932, he took Medina).
The original guardians of the Faith were the Hashemite…
You have as well more “western” approach of religion, where the Doctor of the Faith have historical approach to the faith and have a more intellectual analyse of the texts (Hijtihab).

Now, the problem is the Reformation of the Muslim religion is in the fact most of the Muslim considered the words of the books as the words of Good, given to Mohamed by Gabriel so it can't be changed.
If you compare with the New Testament, all Christians know it was written by Paul, John or others. In fact, none of the texts was written by Jesus himself. That gave to the Christian place for adaptation, especially when the knowledge, the Revelations are in fact translation of translation of text written at least 30 years after the events…

The infallibility of Koran supposed “words of God” poses the crucial problem of the absolute authority of the holly text, so what about of the totalitarian aspects when certain verses of the Koran are in total contradiction with the Human rights?
To succeed in adapting the Muslim Faith, a reformation, you have to convince illiterate Mullah who barely knows 5 lines of the text that they have to stop to think the Koran but to study it.

[Tribesman]

Point being?

The point being if you want to go "its the muslims" and someone comes back with "no its just people all sorts of idiots do the same thing all over the world" don't post links as examples to make your case which contain other footage of all sorts of people all over the world doing what you claim is a "muslim thing" as that is a real case of shooting yourself in the foot.
I did like the West Ham one , thats funny , so is the Belgium nationalist one and the anarcho leftist hippy atheist muslims one

[Banquo's Ghost]

They came about because of a reformation just like in Christianity. I can't believe I did that big write up in the other thread only for it to get locked.

Would it be relevant to repost it here for this discussion, since it seems to be related to Tribesman's point?

Yes, it was an excellent contribution and would sit well in this discussion too.

[Tribesman]

And incident is an incident, a series of incidents is something structural. You had to go for links from the USA Poland to Israel, all I need is a single neighbourhood.

Yes thats because you have his thing about Islam , but your structural thing is a house of cards that falls down very easily .
Anti-semitism is a global thing , so is violence in crappy urban areas , as is local problems with immigrant communities ...which makes your structure of "its a muslim" thing come tumbling down .
For your structural thing to stand you have to show that the issue you have is just something Muslims do and not something that is commonplace through varied communities worldwide.

[Fragony]

BTW it would help your arguement if your links didn't contain lots of examples on the same page that prove my point

Point being?