Republika Molotova Revolts

[HoreTore]

Do I need to mention Constantinople or Athens, should I compare them to whatever village there was in Scandinavia at the time?

Nope, since nobody cares about Scandinavia either.

Germany, UK, France, Spain and Italy, those are the basic countries people care about.

[Cronos Impera]

Nope, since nobody cares about Scandinavia either.

Germany, UK, France, Spain and Italy, those are the basic countries people care about.

Start producing quality Mead and export it abroad. Then you'll see people care again. And please, don't try experimenting with beer or wine. You'll piss a lot of people around here.

[HoreTore]

Start producing quality Mead and export it abroad. Then you'll see people care again. And please, don't try experimenting with beer or wine. You'll piss a lot of people around here.

Do you have any idea what kind of crap mead really is...?

It's a fruity wine. With an awful taste. And more than just slightly gay.

[Samurai Waki]

I thought Norway was known for it's awesome mead? I think nobody seems to care because they aren't invading the coasts of England and ransacking monasteries anymore.

[rasoforos]

I do not know where to start and when to finish with it.

The fact that 'Moldavia bashing' turned into 'Balkan bashing' shows how dangerous lack of geographical knowledge is.

Firstly to Kronos Imperia:

'This is the unofficial name of the Republic of Moldova, a country full of people who refuse to declare they're Russian/Romanian and name themselves Moldovan just to get free gas from Russia and an EU passport from Romania. This practical joke of a state is the very essance of opportunism and corruption.'

The Moldavians themselves present a very different idea than yours. They are not(mostly) Romanians and they are not Russians. Just because Romania wants to absorb them because it considers Moldova as part of Romania doesn't make it so.

No seriously, that place belongs rightfully to Romania, and Russia can off from that place, greedy . They have Siberia and other places

Edyzmedieval. Moldovans claim it too you know


Anyway my pro-Moldovan stance is in no way affiliated to, or influenced by, the fact that I receive some fine Moldovan brandy twice a year or so.




And please if anyone is going to bash the Balkans, please go to the watchtower and demand/petition for a dedicated Balkan Bashing sub-forum. I find the fact that we are being bashed as a side-subject inside a Moldovan bashing forum highly insulting and I will have none of it! We, sirs, deserve more

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Moldavians themselves present a very different idea than yours. They are not(mostly) Romanians and they are not Russians. Just because Romania wants to absorb them because it considers Moldova as part of Romania doesn't make it so.

I would like to see Moldova (re)united with Romania. Indeed Moldova is distinct. As are Wallachia, Transsylvania and Romanian Moldavia. No countries are a monolith. Yet the unification of some regions make sense. Moldova as a Romanian region is as sensible as Rhodes as a Greek region or Normandy as a French one. Or, to use a more apt example, as the five former East German Lands as part of a united Germany.

After 1989, Germany re-incorporated the eastern regions. (Mittel-Deutschland for you German ultra-nationalists). In Romania, it went wrong. Logically, Moldova should've been re-incorporated with the western regions of Romania, as happened in Germany. Alas, Romania went through one of the most prolonged processes to democracy of all of the former East European dictatorships.

Moldova itself relapsed into a petty communist state. A source of instability. Of Russian agitation. (To remain silent of transnistria...)

Democracy in Europe, Romania, and Moldova are not served by the continued existence of a petty, semi-dictatorial mobster state. (For clarity's sake: by which I mean Moldova, not Romania )



To give it a Balkan dimension: the retreat of the Austrian, British, Ottoman and Russian empires from the Balkan has been and is the long term goal. In the case of Moldova ('Bessarabia'), Russia is the power to be ousted. Sentiment in Greece and Serbia leans more towards Russia - their natural ally against the interference of other imperialist powers. Which, I guess, should explain for the varying opinion about the Republic of Moldova between Romania and Greece. I would enjoy a conversation between our posters from the region more than another tired debate about World Wars - which one can read about in virtually all threads here.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Question:

Is this the region of which Smetana composed that glorious suite of his?



Thoughts:

No, I never confused it with the Balkans. I am too avid a fan of military history not to understand precisely where it is. I think the conflation here isn't as much a product of geographic ignorance as some have suggested, however (as TW players the level of map literacy is pretty high), so much as this nationalist 'identity dispute" reminds us of how the Balkans have interacted among themselves for so much of the last quarter century. The thematic issues brought up are relevant to the Balkan experience even if the specific geographic concerns are unique.

[rasoforos]

Which, I guess, should explain for the varying opinion about the Republic of Moldova between Romania and Greece. I would enjoy a conversation between our posters from the region more than another tired debate about World Wars - which one can read about in virtually all threads here.

Let me assure you most Greeks do not know where Moldova is, let alone have a sentiment about it.

My sentiment (and it is mine and mine alone (not representing Greece) and not connected to 'bribery by Brandy' ) comes from the fact that I have known a few Moldovans and a few Romanians and that the feeling that 'the latter = the former' is (mostly) not shared by the latter. It is mostly Romanian wishful thinking and to make matters worse, due to population movements in the USSR it gets more complicated than that.

I believe Romania should try to fix it's situation at home before getting too involved into situations like this

[Sarmatian]

I would like to see Moldova (re)united with Romania. Indeed Moldova is distinct. As are Wallachia, Transsylvania and Romanian Moldavia. No countries are a monolith. Yet the unification of some regions make sense. Moldova as a Romanian region is as sensible as Rhodes as a Greek region or Normandy as a French one. Or, to use a more apt example, as the five former East German Lands as part of a united Germany.

After 1989, Germany re-incorporated the eastern regions. (Mittel-Deutschland for you German ultra-nationalists). In Romania, it went wrong. Logically, Moldova should've been re-incorporated with the western regions of Romania, as happened in Germany. Alas, Romania went through one of the most prolonged processes to democracy of all of the former East European dictatorships.

Moldova itself relapsed into a petty communist state. A source of instability. Of Russian agitation. (To remain silent of transnistria...)

Democracy in Europe, Romania, and Moldova are not served by the continued existence of a petty, semi-dictatorial mobster state. (For clarity's sake: by which I mean Moldova, not Romania )



To give it a Balkan dimension: the retreat of the Austrian, British, Ottoman and Russian empires from the Balkan has been and is the long term goal. In the case of Moldova ('Bessarabia'), Russia is the power to be ousted. Sentiment in Greece and Serbia leans more towards Russia - their natural ally against the interference of other imperialist powers. Which, I guess, should explain for the varying opinion about the Republic of Moldova between Romania and Greece. I would enjoy a conversation between our posters from the region more than another tired debate about World Wars - which one can read about in virtually all threads here.

I admit I'm not very familiar with situation in Moldavia, but from what I've been able to gather, election results paint a different picture than our Romanian friends want to show. Majority of population doesn't want to live in Romania. I don't have a strong opinion either way, it doesn't affect me personally in any way. It's not like Moldavia is the only semi-dictatorial mobster state in the region, it's facing strong opposition from Kosovo and Montenegro.

Again, the problem of great power interventions is evident and only serves to fuel nationalism. In the case of Albanians in Kosovo, self-determination is the way to go, in the case of Serbs in Bosnia, territorial integrity is the governing principle. The situation with Moldova complicated, Russia is directly involved. So, between double standards and Russia-NATO meddling all the time, I don't see much room for maneuver by Balkan nations. We're still forced to maneuver between hammer and anvil.

Now, the thing that Moldavia is not geographically part of the Balkans doesn't change much. Romania isn't either, but anything happening in Romania affects the entire region. Even Serbia isn't in the Balkans in its entirety. Novi Sad is divided by the Danube, it's not like I can go to the other side of the Danube to another part of city and say "these Balkan barbarian, they're not refined as us central Europeans.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Now, the thing that Moldavia is not geographically part of the Balkans doesn't change much. Romania isn't either, but anything happening in Romania affects the entire region. Even Serbia isn't in the Balkans in its entirety. Novi Sad is divided by the Danube, it's not like I can go to the other side of the Danube to another part of city and say "these Balkan barbarian, they're not refined as us central Europeans.

Two remarks:

1) Geopgraphy is cultural, geographical boundaries are a matter of cultural narratives. For example, one can hear Britons as stubbornly denying that they are Europeans as Armenians insisting that they are.

To me, the Balkans is everything south and east of Vienna, and north and west of Istanbul. In the east, I am not even sure where I'd draw the line. L'vov? Possibly. Kiev? Maybe. Though probably, a bit further to the west.


2) Would I be wrong to note that you follow the Greek / Russian / Serbian narrative about Moldavia? Which I mean neutrally. I am not beholden to any particular narrative. Just observing.

[Sarmatian]

Two remarks:

1) Geopgraphy is cultural, geographical boundaries are a matter of cultural narratives. For example, one can hear Britons as stubbornly denying that they are Europeans as Armenians insisting that they are.

To me, the Balkans is everything south and east of Vienna, and north and west of Istanbul. In the east, I am not even sure where I'd draw the line. L'vov? Possibly. Kiev? Maybe. Though probably, a bit further to the west.

Geography is geography and you can't draw the lines where you like. Another issue is that those lines are often meaningless in political or cultural terms. Metternich said that all land east and south of AH are Asia (Asia begins on Landstrasse). Bismarck used the term "Zwischenlaendern" to describe everything between western Europe and Russia and Ottoman Empire, all of which were much more easily definable. History, on the other hands, shows us that in political and cultural terms, those boundaries in Europe don't really exist. What happens in the East affects the West and vice versa, now even more so than 100 years ago.

2) Would I be wrong to note that you follow the Greek / Russian / Serbian narrative about Moldavia? Which I mean neutrally. I am not beholden to any particular narrative. Just observing.

I'd say you would. I don't have any particular opinion about Moldavia. What I know comes from a text in the papers that I read the other day, where election results were presented and goals of each party roughly explained. I don't know about Russians, but I don't think either Serbs or Greeks have a particular narrative about Moldavia. There is no strong official position on the issue in the government or strong sentiment among the population. Most don't really care. Heck, most Serbs by now don't even care about Kosovo anymore, let alone about Moldavia. Rasoforos might explain sentiment in Greece better and correct me if I'm wrong, this is just my feeling.

The only thing I would object to is if the thing would escalate into an armed conflict. I've had enough of that, thank you very much. Bar that, Moldavia may unite with Russia, Romania, Ukraine, stay as it is, be divided into two or more states, I don't really care.

It's just my observation that majority of people in Moldavia don't want to unite with Romania. Could be wrong though, I'm certainly not an expert on the issue.

[Husar]

Anyway my pro-Moldovan stance is in no way affiliated to, or influenced by, the fact that I receive some fine Moldovan brandy twice a year or so.

My pro-Moldovan stance is not affected by the fact that I know a really hot girl from Moldova (some may remember a certain topic and pictures) either.

But then I'm probably generally a geographical conservative, except when it comes to forming the world government. So basically it should not be integrated into Romania but the EU.