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Thread: Germanic pikemen

  1. #1

    Default Germanic pikemen

    Well I'm playing a Sweboz campaign and i just finished my Lvl 5 mic in my capitol and trained two troops of Germanic pikemen and managed to get them over the alps. now they and a fairly large stack sit on a bridge near Mediolanum. now a Romani stack of similar strength attacks them and we fight for the bridge.last time i had a bridge battle i had a unit of Alpine Phanlanx with meand they killed a mob of 500 angry Celtic spearmen and levy spearmen. while loosing 20 men. I said to myself "well when those pseudo hoplite phalanxes can do that what will my pseudo phalanxes to in the same situation." so i did with the outcome of me reloading the game because those §")%!§/)=%!§/?$ stopped like 5meters before the bridge begun and settled with a circle as formation!!!!!! I've seen units dooing silly stuff, i've seen the phalangites dance and I've seen the Ai charging their FM's into the front of Agyraspidai and what notbut this is exeedingly annoying and I know it just needs a good advice from someone more experienced in pseudo phalanx warfare than me :)

    so:
    what can i do to let the Germanic pikemen get into an anti bridge formation as fast as possible(the romans on the other side charge over the bridge :/ )

    thanks in advance
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
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  2. #2
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Frist of all, I believe you should practise this yourself. Just play a Custom Battle with a bridge and you'll enetually figure out what to do. By the way, are those "pseudophalanxes" actually effective? I've read somewhere that the Speutogardoz are not that great actually...

    Maio
    Last edited by Maion Maroneios; 04-18-2009 at 11:03.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    It worked fine with the alpine phalanx who have cosiderably shorter spear and got in position perfectly.

    I know Germanic pikemen are rather crappy without the phalanx ability but If they are supposed to do anything it's taking formation and letting the enemy kill themselves on the bridge.

    and, Maion, it's against romans!
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
    - Pyrrhus of Epirus

    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  4. #4
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Putt View Post
    and, Maion, it's against romans!
    Well, I'd give you a thousand ways to kill a Romaios if it was for a Hellenic instead of Barbaroi faction you chose!

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  5. #5
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    you need to turn off phalanx and run them into formation in front of the bridge, they will usually stop short but when they have stopped give them a second order, click and drag, to stand in front of the bridge, then when they stop again activate phalanx. Pausing helps alot.

    Now, I've never done this with a germanic phalanx but what works for one factions phalanx troops should work for another faction.

    - Four Horsemen of the Presence

  6. #6
    Haruhiist Member Zett's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    you need to turn off phalanx and run them into formation in front of the bridge, they will usually stop short but when they have stopped give them a second order, click and drag, to stand in front of the bridge, then when they stop again activate phalanx. Pausing helps alot.

    Now, I've never done this with a germanic phalanx but what works for one factions phalanx troops should work for another faction.

    They are no 'real' phalanxes, they didn't have the phalanx ability. No way to activate/deactivate the phalanx. But guardmode should work fine.

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    Last edited by Zett; 04-18-2009 at 13:01.


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  7. #7
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Putt View Post
    those §")%!§/)=%!§/?$ stopped like 5meters before the bridge begun
    Ive noticed that too, its seems to be a problem the Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi and a few other units also have, but i have no idea what causes it.

    The Speutagardaz are a excellent unit (their spears have 0.15 lethality) but they need to have their flanks protected as they have no secondary weapon.


  8. #8
    Member Member seienchin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Just use guard mode, when they are in formation, but anyway germanic Pikemen are not a defensive unit.

  9. #9
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    When they stop before they get to the bridge, if you reissue the order with a click and drag they usually go where you want them to. Just about every unit does this.

    The AI can be rather stupid so you need to treat it like a stupid person and tell them the exact same thing multiple times

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  10. #10
    Σέλευκος Νικάτωρ Member Fluvius Camillus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Are you playing 1.2? Because then you dont have the old Speutogardaz who had a real phalanx, as Maion states earlier, are they really good enough that they can hold if they stand in formation?
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Maybe even easier, just order the unit across the bridge (with no intention of doing so). When the front of the unit is in the position you want, just hit STOP [backspace]. The rest of the unit will now trott into position.

  12. #12
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    The Speutagardaz are an excellent unit (their spears have 0.15 lethality, which beats Roman legionaries who have 0.13) but they need to have their flanks protected as they have no secondary weapon.
    Aye, and they are excellent cavalry or chariot killers. And pikemen with blue coats just look super cool (think Hysteroi Pezhetairoi).




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  13. #13
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Where can I find out what a unit's lethality is?

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    As Maion said, experiment around in custom battles until you figure out what works best - the pathfinding in the RTW engine can get a bit funny sometimes, especially around bridges and gates of settlements - i usually put a pike/decent spear unit as close to the end of the bridge as possible without the formation getting messed up, then guard that units flanks with another two decent pike/spear units - any 'spillover' from the central unit usually gets minced Doesnt hurt to have a few reserve spear units too in case your guys get pushed back!

    edit: this kinda thing - ptolies sending two armies into a grinder!



    sorry about the blurriness!
    Last edited by Elcmar; 04-18-2009 at 18:52.


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  15. #15
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    Where can I find out what a unit's lethality is?
    You have to look in the export_descr.txt file

    Code:
    type             germanic infantry gaisaz harjoz
    dictionary       germanic_infantry_gaisaz_harjoz      ; Speutagardaz
    category         infantry
    class            spearmen
    voice_type       General_1
    soldier          germanic_infantry_gaisazharjoz, 40, 0, 1.2
    officer          ebofficer_germanic_standardbearer
    mount_effect     elephant -3
    attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
    formation        0.76, 1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
    stat_health      1, 1
    stat_pri         16, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.15
    stat_pri_attr    light_spear
    stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
    stat_sec_attr    no
    stat_pri_armour  7, 13, 2, leather
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        4
    stat_ground      0, 0, 1, 0
    stat_mental      15, disciplined, highly_trained
    stat_charge_dist 30
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 1606, 402, 125, 174, 1606
    ownership        germans, slave
    The value underlined is the lethality of the weapon.

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    Last edited by bobbin; 04-18-2009 at 18:55.


  16. #16
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Germanic pikemen

    Those Germanic pikemen desperately need that phalanx formation. Their pikes are no good without the formation. If anyone is interested in modding them to have the phalanx, just ask me. In my campaigns, I already modded them.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    See EB Documentation.
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  18. #18
    That's "Chopper" to you, bub. Member DaciaJC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus View Post
    Those Germanic pikemen desperately need that phalanx formation. Their pikes are no good without the formation. If anyone is interested in modding them to have the phalanx, just ask me. In my campaigns, I already modded them.
    Don't you just add phalanx to the "formation" line in the EDU? Worked with the Dacian Heavy Phalanx.
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  19. #19
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Germanic pikemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontline1944 View Post
    Don't you just add phalanx to the "formation" line in the EDU? Worked with the Dacian Heavy Phalanx.
    Yeah, but you also have to change the spear type. Plus, the Dakian Heavy phalanx is not supposed to be a pike phalanx. Just a regular, looser Greek phalanx.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Thanks for the replies but I got sick of reloading the battle and simply used Chauki Proven ones, not perfect but it worked somewhat. as for the Pikemen(yes I know they don't have the phalax ability) they were involved in a series of sallies out of mediolanum where they were rather useless and finaly got anihilated(but one) by 4 roman infantry units and a charge in the back by a roman general :(,. but they bought a lot of time for my proper units to deal with the rest of the army and thus died the death of heroes and may join their ancestors in Valhalla :D I just disbanded the last guy in patavium and settled with waiting for the reform to build MIC5 in my other provinces.

    anyway I'll try ordering them over the bridge in a Costom battle :)
    "Who fights can lose, who doesn't fight has already lost."
    - Pyrrhus of Epirus

    "Durch diese hohle Gasse muss er kommen..."
    - Leonidas of Sparta

    "People called Romanes they go the House"
    - Alaric the Visigoth

  21. #21
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Germanic pikemen

    Improving the combat performance of the Speutagardaz and other "pseudo-phalanxes" by modifying the invisible "radius" soldier stat was being looked into but has been on hold a bit AFAIK (my job actually, when stuff came up and I disappeared for three months...). The test results seemed pretty promising however.
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