Here:

You really have no idea why that is siding with Nazis over me? And if you don't mind me saying you aren't your credibility's best friend in this thread.



Yes, everyone is as hateful as Neo-Nazis. And it's not hate, it's just dislike. Marginal dislike, really. Actually, Nazis love everyone.

Yes, but do chauvanists and feminists call for the harassment of men and women, spread pamphlets around describing how men and women aren't really people, march in mass demonstrations against men and women, threaten and intimidate women, and call for them to be segregated?

Not a good comparison.


Feminists want equality, last I heard.

Stereotyping.

Judgmental.

Stereotyping.

Stereotyping.

So are they all this way? Stereotyping.

Not by all of them. Stereotyping.

Not everywhere. And you're whitewashing Nazism with sexual revolution; a poor argument at best.

All hate is wrong.

Agreed.

The vile propaganda, mass demonstrations based on hate, verbal abuse, and slander that they engage in is a form of abuse, and if there were enough Nazis in power, what would they do? Segregate. Deport. Round up and do nasty things to them, as is their stated goal. That's what makes them... Nazis.

Is your entire argument based on the premise; since I am not also attacking sexists at this very moment, I must have nothing relevant to say? I am confused by what your point is.

Pardon? What the heck are you talking about? I never said I hated; I said I opposed them. Please, don't strawman me. I've been chided for strawman-ing someone here, don't do the same.

I am not required to love Nazis, but I don't hate them. I hate what they stand for. If they renounce their ideology of hate, I'd be fine. I hate hatred itself. Which is kind of what you're asking me to do.... so it's pretty redundant. I still fail to see what your point is.

You have friends who would march in Klan rallies or Nazi rallies and spread vile propaganda about how evil the "dark men" are? Shameful.

There is a difference between people who have quiet distrusting feelings towards black people, and those who would march in Klan rallies. It's a matter of degree..... Nazis are hateful to an unhealthy and destructive degree, because they aren't just distrusting of black people, they think they are a lower species. Which is utterly atrocious and offensive nonsense.

That's pretty shoddy treatment to write off an entire race as stupid, instinct-driven animals.

The evidence is out there. It's not hard to find. People at this stage of the game who still are racist need to get themselves educated. I'll show them the information if they ask for it, but it's such basic stuff that it shouldn't even be necessary to qualify my argument against racists with evidence that races are not all a certain way, or different species. Just like in an argument about physics, one does not necessarily need to re-state the fundamentals of physics in every sentence, or even at all. It's implied that it is understood if you're talking about physics.

If someone is a racist who simply is uneducated, get educated before you open your mouth, I say. Everyone else is a hateful bigot because they should know better.

Really? They seek to establish a collective female order which dominates men? Sounds kind of sexy, actually.

A fringe lunatic or two does not tear down the philosophy of female equality (feminism). What you're talking about is an entirely different concept, which involves female superiority (sexism). Do not equate the two, they are not the same.

Good. Anecdotal evidence about non-sexists does not make one bit of difference in a discussion involving Nazis, racists, and other forms of intolerant hateful bigotry, and even if it was on-topic, anecdotal evidence does not a logical argument make.

How condescending and judgmental to call them idiots.

Israel is not a race. Israel is a country comprised of a large minority population of Arabs living in relative peace and harmony with a Jewish population. Your comparison is flawed.

No comment.

You are whitewashing the oppression of racist hate groups like Nazis with the rest of humanity and saying it is all the same, and it is all based on being stupid.

Nazis consider non-whites to be trash and not human beings. It's possible that the rest of us non-Nazis DON'T think that way. Don't compare the rest of us to Nazis and say it is all the same. You're dead wrong because it isn't the same. No threats of violence, no hate, no intimidation, no rounding up, no deportation, no concentration camp, no lies and propaganda, no effort to reduce their rightful liberties.

Stop comparing us to Nazis. There is a difference between nazis and the rest of humanity: One is a group dedicated to wiping out or suppressing other human beings, and not all of us are like that. Stop whitewashing Nazism as being "just another prejudice based on stupidity". It is a dangerous and violent, hateful ideology bent on reducing the freedoms, equality, and liberties of decent people in this world. It must be tolerated as long as these things remain thoughts, but threats, intimidation, slander, and violence, which these groups always engage in, must never be tolerated, and all hate groups should be monitored as potential threats, because their stated purpose is to threaten. Period.

If I loathe people of faith, why do I insist on speaking to them as equals and trying to convince them using reason, debate, and examples why faith can be dangerous, just as hate can be? Whether you admit it or not, you've grossly misrepresented me, Nazism, feminism, and the rest of humanity here. Is that based on loathing, or should I give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's based on bad information, not "being an idiot" which I don't think you are, but you seem to think that's what explains societies' ills.

When people commit violence, it is not the people's fault... it is the violence's fault?

Originally Posted by :
Sure, without hatred you would not have violence

I accept this as a concession of the entire argument.

You cannot get rid of hatred and violence but within your own heart, and try to convince others to do the same. So yes, you can get rid of violence and hate. But we all must do it voluntarily.

Saying it isn't possible; that's your opinion and it's also not accurate. It is possible to let go of hatred and violence. Many people have.

Is prejudice rational? Is racism rational? For that matter, you and others have argued it is OK to ignore rationalism, because embracing faith in something means rejecting or considering inferior rational argument, and embracing willfully that which cannot be proven, and accepting it as fact when it is not. That's not rational, but you advocate that. Accepting as fact that black people are a lower species, that also is irrational and requires the mind to be ignorant of the vast body of evidence accumulated to date which proves otherwise, intentional or unintentional. When a group advocates fear and intolerance of another, that is but the first step in oppression.

You're preaching to the choir, but it is you who passed them off as being too dumb and stupid to get better. I advocated that they grow up and let prejudice go; it is you who are attacking "the sinners" themselves as being dumb and stupid. I am saying they can get better. I am asking them to get better. I am asking them to get educated and stop hating people without good reason. You're saying "oh they are just dumb".

My attempts to fight the sin of hatred and bigotry here with words have been called judgmental (hilariously, by people judging me as being worse than Nazis) and intolerant (hilariously, by people who think that we shouldn't tolerate someone not tolerant of intolerance) and dangerous (hilariously, by people who are defending and appeasing Nazis).

I don't know what your point is, but it's aimed at the wrong person.

If you say so.

Not in the slightest. I strongly disagree with everything you've said here, barring one or two sentences. But see, in spite of your arguments, I don't hate you or think you inferior to me in any way. I can disagree with you and still be your friend.

I wish you'd kindly retract the part about loathing people of faith; I don't. I have a great many on my friends list, thank you. I've dated and loved people of faith; born to faithful parents. I don't have faith because I consider it to be illogical and dangerous, and I oppose faith, but I don't hate people of faith.

Please tell me you see the difference. I oppose the actions and ideologies of people who are racist, because I oppose racism and I think it's even more dangerous. But I don't hate them, Please tell me you see the difference. Please don't pass off racism as "stupid people" because stupid people don't rally entire nations to their cause and nearly wipe out the Allies under their leadership in World War II.
Intelligent people can become racists too, and that's just as dangerous if not more, and it is NOT a harmless thing to be ignored.

Yes, it is our fault racism exists, not the fault of people who choose to be racist.

German Anti-semitism did NOT start after World War I. It's been around a very long time. so it did not emerge then. And the militant fascism was BASED on that racism and nationalism, both of which have been around since before WWI, and they are both dangerous and destructive.

You know, crazy thought, maybe Germany shouldn't have started a war against peaceful countries and engaged in chemical warfare. I consider that to be crappy treatment.

Blaming the victim will get you nowhere.

I never dismissed it as stupidity or mindless ramblings. I take it VERY seriously, more than you guys do apparently. I consider it to be very dangerous and wrong.

Don't blame the victims, don't appease the Nazis, don't write it off as stupidity, don't ignore it, and don't say it's genetic or environmental and there's no free will involved. That is a much much much more dangerous path to take.







You guys are wrong, wrong I tells ya.

Let's take a voluntary break from this debate. You're missing my points, and I feel that yours are based on bad assumptions and self-defeating logic. As such, you probably feel the same way, and we won't make any progress today.