I laugh in the face of White Supremacist groups

**Rhyfelwyr** · 04-19-2009, 01:50

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

It's not a knee-jerk reaction. Their pamphlets were hateful!

"Why did those dark men take mommy away?"

That is a pamphlet designed to spread fear and hate. PREVENTING such hatred involves speaking out against it. I never said we should exterminate them. You may be trying to argue against hatred, but what you're doing is defending it, and then calling those who oppose hatred hateful, even though they don't sink down to their level.

It is "misguided" as you might call it, to do so. I feel that your defense of these hate-groups could be a knee-jerk reaction of your own. I don't see your reasoning behind it. But I'm attempting to listen.

I'm just saying if they really believe black men are out to get the nice little whites then that's not really any more different from how you would hate Stalin for mass-murdering everyone he didn't like. Presuming you do disapprove of the likes of Stalin, would you hate him with the same hatred Hitler had for the Jews? Or would it not be more of a strong moral disapproval?

**Askthepizzaguy** · 04-19-2009, 01:58

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I'm just saying if they really believe black men are out to get the nice little whites

Then they are correct. Some of them are. And there are a lot more whites out to get them, according to the sheer amounts of white-on-white crime. It's ignorant to fear only one group.

then that's not really any more different from how you would hate Stalin for mass-murdering everyone he didn't like

Yes it is. Opposing a mass murderer is different from hating an entire racial group. There is zero comparison to be made between them.

Presuming you do disapprove of the likes of Stalin

Yes.

would you hate him with the same hatred Hitler had for the Jews? Or would it not be more of a strong moral disapproval?

It's a meaningless hypothetical. Stalin is dead, and a mass murderer who is guilty of crimes against humanity is, and always was, different from a "race" of people. I strongly and morally disapprove of what he did. And I wouldn't even characterize my dislike of racists as hatred; only disappointment and a wish that they would relent and become less ignorant.

If I hated them, as they hate minorities, I'd be calling for much worse than speaking out against them. There is no comparison between what I feel towards racists and what racists feel and do towards those they oppose. I'm dismayed by what you're saying, and wonder what drives you to defend supremacist groups from legitimate concerns that rational people have against their divisive and hateful behavior.

I don't think you're putting forth a reasoned argument, and I don't believe there is a moral reason to defend racists at all from being correctly labeled as hateful.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 04-19-2009, 02:03

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

It's a meaningless hypothetical. Stalin is dead, and a mass murderer who is guilty of crimes against humanity is, and always was, different from a "race" of people. I strongly and morally disapprove of what he did. And I wouldn't even characterize my dislike of racists as hatred; only disappointment and a wish that they would relent and become less ignorant.

If I hated them, as they hate minorities, I'd be calling for much worse than speaking out against them. There is no comparison between what I feel towards racists and what racists feel and do towards those they oppose. I'm dismayed by what you're saying, and wonder what drives you to defend supremacist groups from legitimate concerns that rational people have against their divisive and hateful behavior.

But that's my point. We disapprove of Stalin, white supremacists dissaprove of black people. We don't hate anyone, the white supremacists don't (necessarily) hate anyone. So what is the difference? Stalin is one guy, blacks are, in the minds of the white supremacists, a race. In the minds of these people, black folk have different genes or whatever which make them nasty or different from white people. Just like Stalin's genes made him what he was. Are the white supremacists right to apply such characteristics on the 'racial' level - I don't think so, but they do. They need not hate anyone because of it more than we hate nasty individuals.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 04-19-2009, 02:10

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

But that's my point. We disapprove of Stalin, white supremacists dissaprove of black people. We don't hate anyone, the white supremacists don't (necessarily) hate anyone. So what is the difference? Stalin is one guy, blacks are, in the minds of the white supremacists, a race. In the minds of these people, black folk have different genes or whatever which make them nasty or different from white people. Just like Stalin's genes made him what he was. Are the white supremacists right to apply such characteristics on the 'racial' level - I don't think so, but they do. They need not hate anyone because of it more than we hate nasty individuals.

You can't "disapprove" of someone's existence. You can't disapprove of people. You can disapprove of their actions.

To "disapprove" of a race of people is to not approve of their existing on this planet. That's hateful.

"In the minds of these people, black folk have different genes or whatever which make them nasty or different from white people"

How is that not hatred, and instead, moral objection? There's nothing moral about it. It's hate by the definition of hate. If you don't like the word hate, that's the proper word for it, and it's not really something you can effectively argue against.

"Just like Stalin's genes made him what he was"

That's your opinion, not backed up by any evidence, and forgive me... it's a rather ridiculous thing to suggest that people are slaves to their genes. My parents were alcoholic, that doesn't make me so. I don't drink at all. Blaming people's behavior on their genes absolves people of crimes they chose to commit.

"Are the white supremacists right to apply such characteristics on the 'racial' level - I don't think so, but they do. They need not hate anyone because of it more than we hate nasty individuals"

Ask them yourself; they will tell you they hate people. Read their pamphlets; they tell you how wicked and immoral black people are, and that it is ok to hate them. Morally correct to hate them. But tt's a fact; hatred is hatred, and you can't pretend it doesn't exist when they themselves say they hate black people, and encourage fear of an entire race. You have nothing reasonable here to argue, and you've failed to make a legitimate point, in my opinion.

It's absurd to argue in defense of people who hate entire races of people, without concern about the guilt or innocence of an individual.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 04-19-2009, 02:16

Look we are all what the genes, chemicals etc in our brains and bodies make us, what difference does it make if its on the individual or 'racial' level? And if we are not 'slaves to our genes' then by what other means do we operate? If you make a decision, that's just some electric signals travelling round your brain, you can't choose to overrule them, they make you what you are. That, of course, in my opinion, not a fact.

**Askthepizzaguy** · 04-19-2009, 02:17

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Look we are all what the genes, chemicals etc in our brains and bodies make us, what difference does it make if its on the individual or 'racial' level? And if we are not 'slaves to our genes' then by what other means do we operate? If you make a decision, that's just some electric signals travelling round your brain, you can't choose to overrule them, they make you what you are. That, of course, in my opinion, not a fact.

Identical twins have the same genes. One may become a mass murderer, the other may not.

Blaming everything on genetics is precisely the error racists make, and I encourage you not to believe that fallacy.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 04-19-2009, 02:21

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Identical twins have the same genes. One may become a mass murderer, the other may not.

Blaming everything on genetics is precisely the error racists make, and I encourage you not to believe that fallacy.

If one is taken out the womb before the other, suddenly you have the butterfly effect and there you go one gets the Nobel Peace Prize and the other goes on a killing spree. Biology and environment/upbringing are the reasons behind everything we do. Unless of course you believe in some sort of soul, but then there's no more evidence for that than there is for the big man in the sky.

**Beefy187** · 04-19-2009, 02:21

There were those days when we Japanese bragged about being allowed to be "Special Whites" for beating Russia.

And that was the day when we lost Asian pride