Thought it was interesting enough to share.
https://img297.imageshack.us/img297/...tsdatlarge.jpg
Thought it was interesting enough to share.
https://img297.imageshack.us/img297/...tsdatlarge.jpg
I love it, what makes the US so powerful is that we are always one leap ahead in tech, and they are cutting funding to that instead of increasing it. Also, we should be putting a lot more money into the Abrams. There is not a tank out there that can match it, and we are dismanteling them because we cannot afford to take care of the ones we have!
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
Department of Defence - $515.440 Billion (+7%)
Department of Education - $59.210 Billion (-0%)
...What?
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
AP=Aemilius Paulus
AS=AlexanderSextus
I found the conversation between them about tanks in the EB Tavern social group, but I don't feel like this is the place to copy and paste them. Message me if you want them and/or want me to copy-paste them in another thread.
Back to the budget...
Last edited by CountArach; 04-19-2009 at 08:00.
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
The State governments under the Tenth Amendment are required to take care of the education for their state, if they are having a rough time finding enough money to take care of their citizens, it should not fall upon the Federal government to take of them. The States need to realize they have a budget and that they can't just overspend and when education is cut to the breaking point they can just call upon Uncle Sam to pay their check. They need to trim their government or go bankrupt which helps keep government from getting too big and wasteful (at least that is how it is supposed to work). Also it allows for each state population to decide their own education standards rather having the citizens in California paying the most out of anyone into the Federal budget having any say in the education standards in Alabama.
If the citizens of one state decide to throw out evolution, that is their decision and it is not good for any other state or the Federal gov to tell them how to run their own state or teach their own children.
Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 04-19-2009 at 08:06.
Because then states don't need to be as competitive when they are receiving the money from the federal government. It is not the place of the federal government to interfere with education. States are supposed to be their own independent bodies in as many ways as possible, and take care of themselves. You know what? If the federal government stopped enabling them with money for education, then maybe the States would have to stop some of their corrupt, BS, pork barrel spending to pay for it themselves. So much of tax payer's money is spent on garbage. The States need to take some responsibility, and the individual politicians need to take responsibility.
EDIT: And who do you think ends up paying for it in the long run? The taxpayers. Only now other states who do not spend as recklessly are going to have to pay the burden of those who do. Things need to be competitive for the system to work, and each state has to shoulder the responsibility of its own education system.
Last edited by Vuk; 04-19-2009 at 08:11.
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
Just another thing I want to say. I don't understand the concept of being a fiscal conservative and wanting smaller government when at the same time praising the massive defense and military spending and wanting an increase in its budget. Thats not fiscal conservatism, thats just hating government services and it creates massive debt and deficits. So can someone tell me how this situation is possible for so many "fiscal conservatives"?
We clearly have vastly differing views of citizenship. I am both a citizen of a State, but also of a Federation of States (ie - The Federal Government). If one of my citizenships is insufficient to supply my basic needs then my other State should be there to pick up the slack.
The earning potential of a State is far inferior to that of the Federal Govt.
Who says that standards have to change between States? That is not within the scope of this debate.
Again, this is just an irrelevancy.
So States are competing with each other now? That's just brutal. No child gets to pick their school and most parents would be unwilling to change what State they live in simply because education is inadequate.
II understand that idea... but what about when their resources are insufficient?
Unless you propose complete privatisation (Or even majority privatisation) then nothing is going to change... State-level taxes would have to raise by a lot to pick up the slack from a lack of an interventionist Fed.
Further to all of this, there are unequal earning potentials between States. New York, with it's proliferation of big businesses and wealthy citizens, would (and does) have a far superior earning potential compared to Montana, with it's proliferation of rural communities. This means that when it comes to educating their citizens, a citizen of New York is going to have an advantage... despite the fact that a citizen of Montana is still an American...
Also in regards to government becoming too bloated by spending highly on education at a federal level - surely economies of scale would dictate that a federal government can do the job much cheaper?
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
Of course states should be competitive. Competition in general helps everyone and is what our entire system is built on. Why is it brutal? States have to get their priorities straight with what they should be spending money on. Infrastructure, courts, and education should be at the top. The Federal government has its own functions, and education is NOT among them. States know how to govern themselves better than the Federal government anyway, so with less federal intervention and bureaucracy people would probably end up paying a lot less.
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
I can't agree with that, however, what are they competing for?
If they knew how to govern themselves they wouldn't need this money in the first place.
The American system of government isn't supposed to work this way but realistically the States cannot afford to run everything they need. With the expansion of social services, education and healthcare a constitutional system built on an 18th/19th Century idea of absolute state rights is just not capable of working.Originally Posted by ACIN
And...? Yes it costs less, but you have a decreased ability to pool resources.Originally Posted by ACIN
Two things:Originally Posted by ACIN
1) What is the problem with that? State X (Who has a problem with State Y) has no ability to actually do anything about it... All they can do is have their two Senators vote against the funding. And that is assuming that the citizenry of State X are unhappy with continuing to fund State Y.
2) How can you say State X is paying for State Y's education when the entirety of the nation is paying for State Y's education, including the citizens of State Y? State X only has a limited stake in the education budget of State Y.
You overestimate a parent's willingness to leave their entire life behind, such as their job, their family and their friends. Also if your idea is true then why is it not more for mass migrations to one state or another? Why do large families persist to live in States which have low test scores?Originally Posted by ACIN
Further, there is no underlying effort to seek out the reasons for why State's continue to have low test scores.
Why should citizens have to forgo other essential services in order to pay for their education?Originally Posted by ACIN
So you are claiming that some State's are unequal? I'm not really sure the Constitution is designed that way. In fact... it isn't!Who said that every state is equal? And technically, wouldn't the richest citizens pay for private schooling instead of public anyway?
And yes many rich citizens do pay for private schooling, but what does that have to do with what I stated at all?
Take a look at the defence expenditure and tell me if you can find a reason for the national debt being the way it is. I would also blame constant tax cuts.Take a look at the national debt and tell me if the Fed can do things cheap.
No Child Left Behind is a horrible piece of legislation that takes education in the wrong direction entirely. I would hardly use it as an example of a true Federal-based system of education.If trusted to the Fed, crappy management can cripple the entire school system nationwide and an entire generation. I am sure someone could come up with examples, maybe such as No Child Left Behind.
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
What's really funny is the following:
Department of Defense - 515.440 Billion
Global war on Terror - 189.316 Billion (with 2.426 Billion in construction)
United States Snstitute of Peace .033 Billion
Granted the Institute of Peace got a 32% increase but it will take them a while to catch up I guess.
Also note how the national dept is the big circle in the background that would make all the other small circles look really irrelevant were it in the foreground.
Last edited by Husar; 04-19-2009 at 12:12.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
I tend to agree with CountArch. Ideally the states would be in control but that's an impossibility with the way the current system is set up. In Texas individual districts take up the burden which leads to some pretty piss poor conditions in the rural/poor areas.
I'm not saying federal funding is the answer, I'm just saying right now education is in shambles and for some retarded reason it's always the first thing to be cut.
Education is the key to a literate electorate and elementary education is VITAL for building social skills. Especially in this day and age with a more diverse electorate and the lack of human interaction in everyday life. Schooling also allows you to hear differing veiwpoints and weigh the pros and cons.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Department of Defence - $515.440 Billion (+7%)
Department of Education - $59.210 Billion (-0%)
...What?
Don't really see why your suprised, it is the world we live in, the ability to blow up your nieghbour is far more important than educating the next generation... I would've figured you for a cynical lefty who would have realised this by now...
Though this may not be the case with all countries...
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
I'd prefer it if we referred to the DoD by its original name.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Last edited by Strike For The South; 04-20-2009 at 05:23.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Not all countries, as in the US? When you add in state and local spending, our total spending on education was over $830bn in 2008.
I'm sure there's room to trim the fat on defense spending, but at least that's a legitimate duty of the federal government. So much else that it throws money at, is not.Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
This exact same thread was made some three years ago.
The same graph, and a debate along pretty much the same lines. For you old timers: opened, I believe, by Solypsist.
I'm getting old.
Anyway, one thing to bear in mind is that the graph represents the federal budget. Therefore the budget seems bizarrely skewed towards defense to those more accustomed to the budgets of more centralised states. The US being a federal country, much tax is levied and spend at the state and local level.
Slightly related, does this go some way to explain why the US is seen as overtly militaristic abroad? One associates American presidents more with wars than with schoolbooks or culture. Perhaps, because the latter two are the prerogative of lower level government? If the main purpose of the federal government is common defense and foreign policy, then this explains why US presidents are appear preoccupied with defense. Not an innate trigger-happiness, but the division of tasks between the federal and lower governments explains the image of the US federal government as one preoccupied with war.
Not all countries, as in the US? When you add in state and local spending, our total spending on education was over $830bn in 2008.
Well now thats more like it... i am a bit uncertain about state and local funding for education... it seems unfair to me for example that someone in California would have more spent on thier education than someone in Idaho... or I assume there would be a disparity between what the richest states and poorest states can spend on thier students education... which would just encourage the gap to widen even more...
Another thing I heard about some time ago and i wanted to confirm... Is the local funding of education done via property taxes ?
And does this mean that dirt poor nieghbourhoods get a little funding whereas those in expensive nieghbourhoods get very well funded ?
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
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