Things that get me mad

[anubis88]

I really don't understand this stupid rtw engine...
let me tell you what i'm talking about. The Ptoly's just attacked tarsos (playing as Pontos,), and while it's very well fortified, i probably don't stand a chance, since the army has 7 phalanx units, a buch of thorakitai and galatians + 3 FM's. So i bring a 2200 army to lift the siege ( i was just a few milimiters too late to stop the siege from taking place in the first place) and of course, with my 2 armis it's still 8:10 for them, i can't use one army due to engine limitiations, but i thought hey, a great battle lies ahead, i've never seen a so balanced army from them, and what do you know? The enemy army is waiting for me on the other side of a bridge!

How could an army that would be besieging a city manage to confront my force in such a way that they would hold a bridge, with the city nowhere in site? Woldn't that lifted the siege? Of course i could never win this battle, but i would definetly win it on an open battle. Now i'm gonna have to lose my 26000 people city, get it exterminated by them and then reconquer it...

It always seems to me, then when a battle that really matters happens the AI get's always lucky!. It happend many times to me, that when i had a huge battle, even though the campaign map showed me on a hill, i was the one in practicaly a ditch, and my opponent on a fracking mountain. Not to say such battles are impossible to win, especially if the AI has enough missiles...

I guess ther's not much of a point in this post, i just wanted to get some steam of of me...

So let me ask does anyone alse have similar problems? times when the AI just won't let you win?

[AqD]

Isn't it smart?

[Nachtmeister]

The battle map always centers on the tile of the defender. Thus, with Tarsos, the army would have been laying siege from the bridge in the east... Can happen with Ak Ink too; Olbia also comes to mind. In such battles, either try rushing at least one cavalry unit over the bridge before the enemy takes def position; sometimes the whole army will chase after them for a few seconds: Enough time to quickly establish a bridgehead. Exhaustion will be to your disadvantage though... OR look for a second crossing - I have never seen the AI guarding both crossings (if there is a ford somewhere else on the river, on the same map as the bridge.
For hills - walk up slowly, facing them at all times. Pontos has phalanxes, so use them as arrow-shields. When enemy engages in melee with phalanxes, QUICKLY flank with any javelin troops, rush up behind them, no longer worrying about exhaustion, and throw them in their backs. This way you turn your severe disadvantage into a superb advantage. On the way up, especially if you have classical hoplites in your army, pause frequently to recover stamina. I believe EB is a game to be played without battle time limits - 30mins is waaay too short for a realistic full battle - seeing that it starts before the opposing forces are even within shouting distance.

As for AI trouble:
The Ptolemaioi are starting to annoy me in Mikra Asia - three turns of full-stack battles (on huge unit size they will spread their battle line right across the map so normal flanking is impossible), then two turns to quickly send the army back to Rhodos and Athenai for retraining (I only have a type4gov't Halikarnassos and a not-yet-militarized Sardis, so no hoplitai or thorakitai retraining at the scene and yes they are building ships...) and back to break through the next siege. They ARE using beautifully balanced, diverse stacks though and usually have at least one FM in them - so I could not really wish for more ('cept that the Romani are a pain in the rear coming with Illyrian full stacks at my posessions in northern Italy all the time, with Arretium never seeming to finally reach huge size so I could kill them off... I hate hate HATE dependence upon vanilla marian reforms. But that dependence is absolutely undeniable for KH. IMHO, KH phalangitai should get a second trigger=>faction destroyed: Romani, Makedonia or something like that... Modding EDU won't do it for me (tried it successfully but with a catch) because that way I can no longer join multiplayer games...

Conclusion: Even though it is about as hard as it gets to fight the Ptolemaioi even on VH/M (don't even want to think of being in my current situation on VH battle difficulty) if playing with huge units, it is waaay more fun than fighting three-unit-stacks from AS.

[Vasiliyi]

I feel for you man. Those little things the AI gets tend to piss me off aswell. When that happens, I do one of 2 things. I either quit the campaing for a while and then come back to it, or I raise an elite army and wreak hovack on the enemy. Revenge is always sweet.

[XSamatan]

You have to attack the army with your city garrison, then the enemy will not be on the bridge tile.

If you attack with your second army, which stands outside the city, the enemy army will be on the bridge.

I think you attacked with the army outside the city, right?

XSamatan

[anubis88]

You have to attack the army with your city garrison, then the enemy will not be on the bridge tile.

If you attack with your second army, which stands outside the city, the enemy army will be on the bridge.

I think you attacked with the army outside the city, right?

XSamatan

Yeah i did. But my garrison is a "garrison" army. I have lots of ranged units, 0 cavalry,... Impossible to win the battle this way

[Silence Hunter]

If you set that the reinforcing army (your real army, not the garrison) would be controlled by you they will enter the battlefield to fill the empty unit slots. If, for example, your garrison is 4 units, 16 more units will come from the real army. In your place I would send my garrison to die an honorable death on a suicide mission trying to kill as many as possible, thus losing these units and letting the whole real army to come and teach those Ptolemaioi a lesson.

[anubis88]

My garrison army is 15 units.... It's a large army, but as i said, it's not an army to fight an open battle with... I'm gonna have to try to think of something alse to do

[Lovejoy]

Bridge battles isnt thaaaaaat hard if there is a second crossing. I have never seen them guard it. Send one or two units over the bridge to keep the enemy army busy, while at the same time you send the rest of your army over the second crossing. Once all your units are over the crossing, its a normal battle.

[seienchin]

My garrison army is 15 units.... It's a large army, but as i said, it's not an army to fight an open battle with... I'm gonna have to try to think of something alse to do

15 Units??
Then its easy. Wait for the Ptollis to atack and try to delay them as good as possible and then just hold the center of the city.With a little bit of luck times running up before they kill all your men.
Oh and you can set unlimited soldiers in the preferences,

[Kromulan]

Actually, it's pretty easy to get your field army across the river north of Tarsus, then attack Ptolie from across the river.
Your field army will be on one side, with enemy on the other, and your garrison will appear as reinforcements on the same side as the enemy. Use the garrison to draw the enemy away from the crossing and WHAP! Your field army is attacking the rear of the enemy.

[soup_alex]

anubis88, I think you're overlooking the AI's ability to summon "Captains" at will, and from thin air (or 00000001 from 00000000, say). Guaranteed there's a handful of superfluous "Captains" and camp followers back at the walls having sh*t flung at them and arguing with itinerant traders about why they can't enter the city. "Well, because our army is laying siege, obviously!", "THERE ARE ONLY FIVE OF YOU HERE WHAT THE HECK"

Really, though: an army laying siege to a walled settlement, whilst simultaneously intercepting a relief at a river crossing?
RTW AI: "LOL I TROL U!"

[Nachtmeister]

Unfortunately, the game engine is not programmed to
- reset turns until surrender everytime a relief force draws off the siege army to battle
- allow you to retreat your garrison from the settlement in a sally, thereby saving your troops and surrendering the settlement
- perform realistic diplomacy
- allow retreating from sea battles
- etc, etc.
Make the best of it - sometimes it also works out to your advantage as human player...

[Spearman]

I love launching a ship to sea and watching every rebel fleet that has'nt moved or are on the other side of the mediterranean bee line straight for you. I don't mind taking my chances when there is a local piracy epidemic, but come on, that half stack was off the coast of Briton when I set out!

[seienchin]

I love launching a ship to sea and watching every rebel fleet that has'nt moved or are on the other side of the mediterranean bee line straight for you. I don't mind taking my chances when there is a local piracy epidemic, but come on, that half stack was off the coast of Briton when I set out!

Again thats not the Rome Engine its Eb.
Because the other nations rarely built ships.

[Ardri]

Because the other nations rarely built ships.

Is it possible to add navies for other nations through the command console? Something similar to the adding units to an army? I haven't ever done this, or the details of it, but if we could create army units why not navies?

[Elcmar]

Is it possible to add navies for other nations through the command console? Something similar to the adding units to an army? I haven't ever done this, or the details of it, but if we could create army units why not navies?

I imagine its possible, you can move fleets around using the move_character command, so you should be able to add units to the fleets too! I'll give it a try later myself

[Nachtmeister]

Is it possible to add navies for other nations through the command console? Something similar to the adding units to an army? I haven't ever done this, or the details of it, but if we could create army units why not navies?

AFAIK you can definitely add ships to already existing navies via console. Just *spawning* them somewhere is not possible with the regular add_unit command.
However, in my current EB1.2 (not modded at all) all console commands except auto_win and toggle_fow are disabled.
(I use auto_win against eleutheroi when I have forces that are bound to win because on my machine battles are terribly slow to load and toggle_fow to notice in time when allies get attacked beyond their ability to defend because with diplomacy being what it is they don't request assistance when they realistically would...)

[soup_alex]

allies

Allies?
You mean, your allies?
You mean, the computer allies with you?!

[Nachtmeister]

Allies?
You mean, your allies?
You mean, the computer allies with you?!

^^ It only works with factions not sharing borders with me - as KH, Aedui for instance. As long as I am not at war with Qarthadast. I also tend to donate quite the amounts of money to them - Aedui have a purpose: Keep Romani and Arverni in check.

[deviant927]

and another thing is those stupid pesky skirmishers... :(

i hate it when they would run out of ammo then if you attack them they will just flee... kills of so much time!!!! (on my KH campaigns.)

i wish i could just remove their skirmishing ability!!!! screw them!!!!

stupid AI just doesnt know when to surrender....

[TheStranger]

I hate it when your own skirmishers run into the enemy unit although they are not out of ammo. Interesting thing: the velites don't have the ability "may charge without orders", but I had this quite often. And what is more annoying is that you can't give them orders to go away, no they fight till they get significant losses. Does anyone else has this too?

[L1914]

The thing that at times puts me off playing EB completely - my units won't chase routers

Really, has anyone else had the same problem - as the enemy is running away, you double click for your unit to go in pursuit, they catch up to them and then they just stop and let the enemy gain some distance again.

My cavalry units sometimes wouldn't do even that - they won't even give chase when you double click on the fleeing enemy - they just stand there AND REFUSE TO FOLLOW YOUR ORDERS

The only solution I've found is to Alt+double click behind the fleeing enemy, so that when my troops catch up to them they engage in melee, but it's just so damn difficult to account for 10+ units chasing another 10+ all over the map.

Now I've spent some years in the military and I can appreciate that when you are exhausted chasing down people is not the smartest thing that a general can order you to do. But then again if you are insubordinate to the point of not even extending the effort

I would greatly appreciate it if anybody can save EB for me and tell me what I'm doing wrong

[Nachtmeister]

I hate it when your own skirmishers run into the enemy unit although they are not out of ammo. Interesting thing: the velites don't have the ability "may charge without orders", but I had this quite often. And what is more annoying is that you can't give them orders to go away, no they fight till they get significant losses. Does anyone else has this too?

When this happens, switch off skirmish mode for the unit in question, then double-click where you want them to retreat to. You will probably still lose some men while disengaging, but that way at least they instantly follow your orders.

[Nachtmeister]

The thing that at times puts me off playing EB completely - my units won't chase routers

Really, has anyone else had the same problem - as the enemy is running away, you double click for your unit to go in pursuit, they catch up to them and then they just stop and let the enemy gain some distance again.

My cavalry units sometimes wouldn't do even that - they won't even give chase when you double click on the fleeing enemy - they just stand there AND REFUSE TO FOLLOW YOUR ORDERS

The only solution I've found is to Alt+double click behind the fleeing enemy, so that when my troops catch up to them they engage in melee, but it's just so damn difficult to account for 10+ units chasing another 10+ all over the map.

Now I've spent some years in the military and I can appreciate that when you are exhausted chasing down people is not the smartest thing that a general can order you to do. But then again if you are insubordinate to the point of not even extending the effort

I would greatly appreciate it if anybody can save EB for me and tell me what I'm doing wrong

Siege battles with the enemy sallying?

That's a bug.
Take any one (or two or three or all) of the city's gates and your troops will again pursue routing enemies.

[L1914]

aha, so it's a RTW bug then

Thank you :)

[Celtic_Punk]

I never had problems with that when the enemy sallies. I love when they sally. I win! They chase em through the gates and then we take the square in the confusion.

[Watchman]

That one is probably the well-known issue with the pathfinding AI - most of the time the pursuing unit will sooner or later end up with routers both ahead and behind it, tries to "target" both, gets confused, and results in the somewhat surreal sight of, say, fleeing hoplites in front, pursuing cavalry trotting in the middle, and fleeing hoplites bringing up the rear, all going in the same direction...

Not a major problem if the pursuing unit is faster and you have the time to micromanage it (ie. either dashing ahead or stopping for a moment so the routers end up all on one side), but mildly annoying.

[soup_alex]

When this happens, switch off skirmish mode for the unit in question, then double-click where you want them to retreat to. You will probably still lose some men while disengaging, but that way at least they instantly follow your orders.

I'd forgotten that I'd seen this problem myself until a battle earlier today; a small unit of Iberi equites caetrati drawing a much larger bunch of Roman citizen cavalry away from the main fight (while their pals brought up the rear and lobbed in a few more javelins), but who stupidly let themselves get caught at the edge of a lake and wouldn't run when I ordered them to. Took me a little while to figure out it would have to be a Skirmish mode/move order conflict (which, to be fair, I don't often see, as ideally the only time skirmishers engage in melee combat is WHEN YOU TELL THEM TO). Also, a catastrophic apparent collapse of discipline brought upon by pathing AI in general (gates, walls, buildings, siege equipment, etc. etc. Cavalry are the absolute worst, being ordered to engage and instead of charging, just walking up to the target at a leisurely pace, if not actually charging at one point in the enemy line and then suddenly braking, and moving at a reduced rate towards a completely illogical point in the line.

The thing that at times puts me off playing EB completely - my units won't chase routers

Really, has anyone else had the same problem - as the enemy is running away, you double click for your unit to go in pursuit, they catch up to them and then they just stop and let the enemy gain some distance again.

My cavalry units sometimes wouldn't do even that - they won't even give chase when you double click on the fleeing enemy - they just stand there AND REFUSE TO FOLLOW YOUR ORDERS

The only solution I've found is to Alt+double click behind the fleeing enemy, so that when my troops catch up to them they engage in melee, but it's just so damn difficult to account for 10+ units chasing another 10+ all over the map.

Now I've spent some years in the military and I can appreciate that when you are exhausted chasing down people is not the smartest thing that a general can order you to do. But then again if you are insubordinate to the point of not even extending the effort

I would greatly appreciate it if anybody can save EB for me and tell me what I'm doing wrong

I've had a rather annoying problem with this myself, although I didn't know anything about the siege/gate pursuit bug. When ordering Dahae Riders (or Dahae Skirmishers, or Archaosians; I forget) to pursue fleeing foes, they just wouldn't. Every time, siege or not. Just didn't work. They'd shoot, march, run and skirmish just fine, but (come to think of it, it probably was the Riders, as I was looking forward to using their fair charge bonus) every time they were ordered to chase, and sometimes even to engage, an enemy, they'd just stop; sometimes move around a little bit; mostly just standing around as if they'd been given instructions to defeat the enemy by pulling funny faces at them, or something.

Siege battles with the enemy sallying?

That's a bug.
Take any one (or two or three or all) of the city's gates and your troops will again pursue routing enemies.

Wow. Didn't even know about this, it sounds positively infuriating!

Not a major problem if the pursuing unit is faster and you have the time to micromanage it (ie. either dashing ahead or stopping for a moment so the routers end up all on one side), but mildly annoying.

Oh, so annoying. So, so very annoying.

[Nachtmeister]

The gate-bug even makes sense...
See, the enemy (fleeing unit) HAS a path before it. YOUR unit does not - it can not set a path for the town square. Apparently, pursuit to the town square works different from open battle maps (where your pursuers lock onto the current enemy position) - instead, they seem to try to lock onto their destination. An enemy gate is not a valid path - ergo, moving "where those guys are going" is not possible. But as long as you are not fighting around stone walls, it doesn't matter much - just let the enemy get to the gate, follow manually, then when it opens, rush in - it will suddenly belong to you, the enemy will be all cramped trying to get through and in the end you get to kill them even faster this way.

For those lazy Dahae skirmishers, did you try an alt-rclick attack command...? Because on normal right-click after ammunition is spent, I also get this problem - furthermore, it is generally not a good idea to try ordering multiple units (selected simultaneously) to perform the same task except for rclick-drag formation orders... And even those sometimes don't work with multiple units selected.

For charges - yes it always happens in cities - just don't rely upon cavalry when near ANY obstacles (meaning not passable terrain and those square elevations that won't allow normal rclick-drag formation orders). Also don't rely on phalanx formations there. Better yet, fight somewhere else...
Pathfinding can be such an human rear end.