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Thread: class of infantry

  1. #1

    Default class of infantry

    I do not understand certain choices in the EDU file.
    By what criteria it was decided that a unit is heavy, light or missile?

    Some examples:
    - camillan principes are heavy instead of spearmen,
    - hastati are light instead of heavy, (despite their fight in the same way as the polybian principes),
    - all skirmisher units are missile instead of light,
    - hastati samnitici are light instead of spearmen, and there are many others.

    changing these little things in my campaign I have noticed a radical change:
    - now my velites can sustain a prolonged fight,
    - my hastati are more powerful,
    -and camillan principes better resist the cavalry.

    I would like to understand the criterion that will determine the class of infantry.

    I think that might be a topic of discussion in relation to EB2.
    Proud Roman General




  2. #2
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: class of infantry

    Role on the battle field.

    Placing by the AI on the battle field.

    Recruiting preferences by the AI on the campaign map.


    And err...
    - now my velites can sustain a prolonged fight,
    - my hastati are more powerful,
    -and camillan principes better resist the cavalry.


    - Velites shouldn't be in prolonged fights...
    - Hastati are already powerful enough and they are relatively inexperienced soldiers.
    - Camillian Principes are no "spearmen", they are infantry for fighting other infantry, which are only marginally better at countering horses than swordsmen. Plus historically, the Camillian Principes also fought with swords in close quarters, but the TW engine only allows two weapons per unit.
    Last edited by Mediolanicus; 04-20-2009 at 19:34. Reason: typo
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  3. #3
    Krusader's Nemesis Member abou's Avatar
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    Default Re: class of infantry

    Mediolanicus describes perfectly well.

  4. #4
    Member Member Bucefalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: class of infantry

    Yes it is was Mediolanicus said, they are just tags that the game use so the AI know what kind of troops if each one. In the ai files usually the ai formations refers to this tags, and the ai will use the units accorded to the tag that each one have.

    edit: Speaking of this, iīve seen on others M2TW mods (SS IIRC) the use of new tags, such as "skirmishers" instead of missile for some troops. I donīt really know if this give better results or not, but proves that this tag system can be modified. I donīt really know if the EB team has any plan regarding this.
    Last edited by Bucefalo; 04-20-2009 at 19:21.

  5. #5
    Bibliophilic Member Atilius's Avatar
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    Default Re: class of infantry

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucefalo View Post
    Speaking of this, iīve seen on others M2TW mods (SS IIRC) the use of new tags, such as "skirmishers" instead of missile for some troops. I donīt really know if this give better results or not, but proves that this tag system can be modified. I donīt really know if the EB team has any plan regarding this.
    We did precisely that some years ago. It was very bad for AI recruitment balance in EB. It does NOT mean the tag system can be modified - try using "medium" and see what happens. What it probably means is that "skirmisher" was a legal tag that was never completely implemented.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: class of infantry

    I agree because my AI do not make manipular formation.
    But what effect have this choice on units efficiency.

    for example:
    spearmen vs infantry have -4.
    and heavy vs light?
    light vs missile?
    cavalry vs light?

    This question because i see many changes with my modifications (EDU).
    My velites and my hastati (respectively switched to light and heavy) is very better in fight.
    however, it can be my error observation.
    Proud Roman General




  7. #7
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: class of infantry

    Quote Originally Posted by Aulus Caecina Severus View Post
    I agree because my AI do not make manipular formation.
    But what effect have this choice on units efficiency.

    for example:
    spearmen vs infantry have -4.
    and heavy vs light?
    light vs missile?
    cavalry vs light?

    This question because i see many changes with my modifications (EDU).
    My velites and my hastati (respectively switched to light and heavy) is very better in fight.
    however, it can be my error observation.
    AFAIK it's not the tag "spearmen" that gives the -4, but it is the fact that they use spears... even if they are tagged "heavy infantry" or "missile"

    Do what you want with your Velites and Hastati, I stick to my point they both aren't supposed to be very good heavy infantry...

    AI can't make the manipular formation. But it does make missile, light inf, spearmen, heavy inf, and cav. So that where those tags are for.
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  8. #8
    is on the outside looking out Member PraetorFigus's Avatar
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    Default Re: class of infantry

    Quote Originally Posted by Mediolanicus View Post
    AFAIK it's not the tag "spearmen" that gives the -4, but it is the fact that they use spears... even if they are tagged "heavy infantry" or "missile"

    Do what you want with your Velites and Hastati, I stick to my point they both aren't supposed to be very good heavy infantry...

    AI can't make the manipular formation. But it does make missile, light inf, spearmen, heavy inf, and cav. So that where those tags are for.
    To add, for infantry units that use spears some have an attribute (stat_pri_attr, or stat_sec_attr in edu) named light_spear, before what was used was spear.

    Below is what Aradan writes in his guide about how those two attributes affect units.

    # light_spear: Gives default bonus of +8 to defense vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to defense vs. infantry. Offers less pushing power than spear.
    # spear: Gives default bonus of +8 to attack vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to attack vs. infantry. Offers more pushing power than light_spear. Units with "spear" attribute tend to lose cohesion and break lines (due to the extreme pushing power) with undesired results, so use is advised only with cohesive formations/attributes like short_pike, shield_wall, phalanx etc.

    The link is to Aradan's excellent Guide with more on the edu https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=88859

    The army formation is something separate that I know little about, but there are some mods for that if you don't like how the AI forms its army

    This link should be useful for that. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90313

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